Guest BSDaemon Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I was thinking about this today. If forefit wins are handed out at the end of the season, I'm literally going to be penalized for playing more games then everyone else! For example: I have played 28 games, accumilating 34 points. If I'm given the remaining 12 games as FF wins, I will finish the season with 58 pts. StL has played 17 games, for 18 points. If he's given the remaining 23 games as FF wins, he finishes the season with 64 points, rising up above me in the standings. The only thing I can think of, unless im mistaken, is that nobody gets FF wins. They only get DNPs (which has no effect on the standings), while the person who was called on to play and never showed up gets a 1-0FF loss (which also has no effect on the standings) Can anyone clarify the DNP/FF rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABS Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 SHATTTAPPPPPPPA JUU MOUUTH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Okay, anyone who ISN'T currently under the influence of alcohol or other intoxicating substances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 This is right from my rules page on the nhl94online.com website: If a coach posts a request to play a current months game, and there is no reply to that request before the deadline, the requesting coach receives a 1-0 win, and the non-replying coach receives a 1-0 loss. If neither team makes an effort to play a game, they will both receive a DNP. DNP = Did Not Play. Both teams will receive a DNP, worth 0 pts. If both coaches make an attempt to contact each other and just don't connect, then they will each receive a 0-0 tie for those games. -Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 great... so i should have stopped playing games ages ago... im gonna get screwed in the standings now. penalized for playing games... thats just what this league needs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokkeefan Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 great... so i should have stopped playing games ages ago... im gonna get screwed in the standings now. penalized for playing games... thats just what this league needs.... OMFG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addisonbr Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 great... so i should have stopped playing games ages ago... im gonna get screwed in the standings now. penalized for playing games... thats just what this league needs.... I fail to see how you're penalized for playing games, if you are at all a .500 player or better. The best you can do by blowing off an opponent who is otherwise available to play is a tie. I can't speak for anyone else, but given the spirit of the league, I'm not going to let anyone else's availability or commitment ruin my fun. I'm certainly not going to not play my games just because I think it raises my chances of playing the #8 seed instead of the #7 seed in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 I fail to see how you're penalized for playing games, if you are at all a .500 player or better. The best you can do by blowing off an opponent who is otherwise available to play is a tie.I can't speak for anyone else, but given the spirit of the league, I'm not going to let anyone else's availability or commitment ruin my fun. I'm certainly not going to not play my games just because I think it raises my chances of playing the #8 seed instead of the #7 seed in the playoffs. I said nothing like that. You're not seeing the point. I can lose a place in the standings to somebody who didn't even play their games because they get 1-0 wins for all of them, assuming they posted in the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addisonbr Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Perhaps I misunderstood. You said: great... so i should have stopped playing games ages ago... im gonna get screwed in the standings now. penalized for playing games... thats just what this league needs.... You're not seeing the point. I can lose a place in the standings to somebody who didn't even play their games because they get 1-0 wins for all of them, assuming they posted in the forum. And I said that speaking only for myself, given the spirit of the leauge I would never not play my games just to secure an extra spot in the standings... Well, again, maybe I misunderstood. Maybe there is a different reason you should have stopped playing games ages ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setar Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 This does seem illogical. Maybe forfeit wins shouldn't be worth as much as "real" wins, so you could have say a win is a win worth two, but a forfeit win is worth one. This might be weird but you could make a "normal" win three and a forfeit two. Either way, it gives incentive to actually PLAY games and get better to win them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Perhaps I misunderstood.You said: And I said that speaking only for myself, given the spirit of the leauge I would never not play my games just to secure an extra spot in the standings... Well, again, maybe I misunderstood. Maybe there is a different reason you should have stopped playing games ages ago? I should have stopped playing... because a person who plays their games gets the occasional loss. a person who doesnt play their games doesnt get losses... only forefit wins. therefore im going to get passed in the standings by somebody with less games played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addisonbr Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 I should have stopped playing... because a person who plays their games gets the occasional loss. a person who doesnt play their games doesnt get losses... only forefit wins. therefore im going to get passed in the standings by somebody with less games played. Okay, then I understood correctly. Well, I'm only speaking for myself, but I would never not play my games just because of the standings. You and I are different though. But other than that, you might not understand how it works. Someone who doesn't play their games doesn't just get FF wins, they also get DNPs and 0-0 ties. The only way you get a FF win is if you make efforts to play your games and the other owner completely ignores it. If the other owner responds at all, you can't get a FF win by refusing to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Okay, then I understood correctly. Well, I'm only speaking for myself, but I would never not play my games just because of the standings. You and I are different though.But other than that, you might not understand how it works. Someone who doesn't play their games doesn't just get FF wins, they also get DNPs and 0-0 ties. The only way you get a FF win is if you make efforts to play your games and the other owner completely ignores it. If the other owner responds at all, you can't get a FF win by refusing to play. why do you keep saying "Well, I'm only speaking for myself, but I would never not play my games just because of the standings. " ?? I can't figure that out... it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about... how are we different? And yes, I understand perfectly how it works. I'm not sure why you're the only one who is unable to understand how the logic for handing out FF wins is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addisonbr Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 why do you keep saying "Well, I'm only speaking for myself, but I would never not play my games just because of the standings. " ?? I can't figure that out... it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about... how are we different?And yes, I understand perfectly how it works. I'm not sure why you're the only one who is unable to understand how the logic for handing out FF wins is bad. You said repeatedly you should have stopped playing games long ago, because it would have helped you in the standings. I always want to play my games, all the time, even if it would hurt me in the standings. So that seems to make us different. I say I don't speak for anyone but myself because, well, I don't... Just one man's opinion. Takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. I don't believe the logic for handing out FF wins is bad. I suspect I'm not the only one who believes this, but - stop me if you've heard this one - I don't speak for anyone but myself. For example, right now I'm facing an uphill battle to qualify for the playoffs with EDM and desperately trying to get my games in. A few guys just aren't responding. It would bum me out if despite repeatedly asking to schedule them, I had to take forfeits in some games where I had a shot at winning, and then miss the playoffs because FF's got penalized. But you may be right, I may be the only one here who disagrees with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 You said repeatedly you should have stopped playing games long ago, because it would have helped you in the standings. I always want to play my games, all the time, even if it would hurt me in the standings. So that seems to make us different. I say I don't speak for anyone but myself because, well, I don't... Just one man's opinion. Takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. I don't believe the logic for handing out FF wins is bad. I suspect I'm not the only one who believes this, but - stop me if you've heard this one - I don't speak for anyone but myself. For example, right now I'm facing an uphill battle to qualify for the playoffs with EDM and desperately trying to get my games in. A few guys just aren't responding. It would bum me out if despite repeatedly asking to schedule them, I had to take forfeits in some games where I had a shot at winning, and then miss the playoffs because FF's got penalized. But you may be right, I may be the only one here who disagrees with you. I always want to play my games too. It just sucks that somebody who cant be bothered to play their games is going to be higher in the standings then somebody who makes an effort. Basically I'm saying it sucks that I'm penalized for playing my games. In a league where GP are few and far between, that's the last thing the league needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 No one is going to get FF wins unless they post in the Schedule A Game forum actively looking for coaches they need to play. If the coach never shows up, he can only get FF ties or losses. Does that clear up anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setar Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 No one is going to get FF wins unless they post in the Schedule A Game forum actively looking for coaches they need to play. If the coach never shows up, he can only get FF ties or losses.Does that clear up anything? You might want to clarify what "actively" is, it seems kind of vague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 You might want to clarify what "actively" is, it seems kind of vague. Yeah, thats the tough part. Is posting once good enough to warrant a FF win? Look, I'm not saying that guys who really tried to get games in don't deserve SOMETHING, but im not sure if an automatic win is right. Heres an idea I came up with: NOBODY can get any more then FF wins then the person with the fewest # of FF wins. Eg. if the season ended now, I would get 12 FF wins. i propose that no team in my conference can get more then 12 FF wins. So if they actively tried to get games in on the forums, etc, they get 18 FF wins, and the rest of their schedule filled with DNPs. This would result in: Chicago ending up with 34 + 24 = 58 points StL ending up with 18 + 24 = 42 points Or maybe make it 1.5x the number of FF wins as the person with the fewest # of FF wins, resulting in: Chicago ending up with 34+24 = 58 points StL ending up with 18 + 36 = 54 points Or, perhaps nobody can pick up any more FF wins then the person with the highest # of wins, resulting in: Chicago ending up with 34+24 = 58 points StL ending up with 18 + 34 = 52 points I'm not sure, this can be discussed further, but I think it's a good idea to limit the number of FF wins you can get, so that we dont see players who actually played all of their games losing standings to people who didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addisonbr Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Yeah, thats the tough part. Is posting once good enough to warrant a FF win? If the other owner posts zero times, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setar Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 If the other owner posts zero times, yes. Kind of unfair due to blanket topics - I could blanket all my games for month one in one topic and month two in another, and anyone who doesn't respond I get an auto win against. The limit system is good IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addisonbr Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 NOBODY can get any more then FF wins then the person with the fewest # of FF wins. In GENS A at least two or three teams will complete their entire schedules (perhaps by this weekend). This would mean that nobody would be allowed a FF win. An owner like myself, who is bending over backwards to try to complete the schedule he inherited but is having a devil of a time getting responses from some owners, would get screwed out of games he'd otherwise like to play and try to win. And might miss the playoffs because of it. Gotta be honest with you, I care less about whether or not you get the #1 or #2 seed in your division than I do about hard-working teams being locked out of the playoffs because other owners won't play. Kind of unfair due to blanket topics - I could blanket all my games for month one in one topic and month two in another, and anyone who doesn't respond I get an auto win against. The limit system is good IMO. I think the overwhelming majority of those would result in 0-0 ties. And eventually lead to teams being reallocated to B or C leagues, so I'm not that worried about it in terms of a "strategy" unscrupulous teams would try to employ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setar Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Maybe only give out a limited number of FF wins, say 5-7 per team max? Then the rest of the FFWs would be converted to ties. I really think my idea is a bit better - have a category for FF wins and make wins 3, FF wins 2, ties 1. We could add in that FF wins get full credit, but you can only have three credited this way(15 points) and the rest are credited as FFW for two points. In addition, DNPs could result in a penalty of one point, meaning that if you had a game you knew you'd lose, you couldn't just get out of it by taking a DNP because you'd have a point deducted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BSDaemon Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 I dunno, all I know is that if I lose a place in the standings because I played all my games (and i was a replacement coach, who missed the entire first month - so theres really no excuse for everyone else), I'm going to be PISSED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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