Bo Knows NHL94

Technical differences (not gameplay)

Recommended Posts

To be fair, the SNES version was released later, so that could help explain some of the things.

First up, Emulator differences

ZSNES advantages:

  • Rarely desyncs (one player sees one thing, other guy sees something else on his screen) Note: houli sees this as a disadvantage because he can't cry about it
  • games don't usually get choppy the way GENS often does
  • you can load savestates if you do disconnect/desync

GENS advantages

  • Server is an option if you have issues with firewalls
  • You can copy/paste the IP address so you don't need to manually put it in like ZSNES
  • playing 2on2 with 4 guys is totally badass (not sure if ZSNES supports 4 way play, but either way it isn't around yet so GENS gets a win)

The server thing is a nice option for Genesis, but really if you do what you need to do then you shouldn't have a problem hooking up via Hamachi. The not being able to paste an IP address into ZSNES is irritating, but it isn't really the end of the world.

Now, onto the game options/button difference part...

SNES Advantages:

  • Select home/away team before the game so you don't need to rehost to switch who's home
  • Quit game option if you select the wrong teams or whatever
  • Instant goalie control button*
  • Instant Left D and Right D buttons
  • Line Change button without need to dump the puck
  • Fans throw hats for Hat Tricks even when the home team is at the bottom

* This was later fixed and can be applied to Genesis games. http://pixelpuck.com/?p=1778'>See here

Genesis Advantages:

  • You don't have to sit at the intro screen for a while for no reason at all
  • You can hit the guys after the whistle during a penalty call when it shows the penalty box area (hey, it's pretty hilarious when it happens.)
  • You can save a line change (very useful when a guy gets hurt for a period... you just pick save line, then change out the hurt guy and then at the end of the period you go Load Saved Line)
  • It says how many goals/assists your player has scored within a game when he scores.
  • It beeps at the 1 minute mark
  • Beep to alert whenever a man is leaving the penalty box, not just when it's back to even (Ex: it's 5 on 3 and becomes 5 on 4, there's no beep, the guy just sneaks out of the box)

I'll update this as people put more things in the thread. Just try to keep it to things not related to gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have much for THIS one, but I do think I managed to hit a guy on the sideview. once. I can't prove it, though. you just can't see any depth from this view, so it's nearly impossible to line up.

I never thought about the beeps....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maybe this is the place for this question:

SNES controller command response time is 16ms. what is it for the Genesis? I can't seem to find the answer online and I am very much curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are desyncs with ZSNES. And the game does get choppy sometimes, it all depends on the network and the connection. Though I think it happens less frequently than Gens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maybe this is the place for this question:

SNES controller command response time is 16ms. what is it for the Genesis? I can't seem to find the answer online and I am very much curious.

Hmm... apparently I know everything, but I'll have to get back to you on that one :P (Smoz?)

There are desyncs with ZSNES. And the game does get choppy sometimes, it all depends on the network and the connection. Though I think it happens less frequently than Gens.

You're right, I changed the wording a little bit. It's much rarer to see a desync with ZSNES compared to GENS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....apparently I know everything, but I'll have to get back to you on that one....

I can't find anybody/anything with this information, but I'm pretty sure it is most of why I "do not prefer" that system. the delay between pressing a button and seeing the reaction on the screen is torturously long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are you playing on.. It feels instant on a TV or on an emulator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was playing on a console and television until about a year ago when I sold my NES and threw in the Genesis as a bonus because I am a nice guy, believe it or don't. did GENS make the response time better? did Kega make it worse? let's see some statistics, some hard data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are you playing on.. It feels instant on a TV or on an emulator.

lol.He's ridiculous isn't he? 16 years after everyone stopped playing the systems he's still got his own personal SNES vs Genesis console war going on in his head. After realising he was annoying the hell out of everyone with his constant weight bug vendetta he's now moved on to "controller response times". lol

I can't think of a more boring, pointless way of saying "SNES is better than Genesis" under the thinly veiled guise of some sort of research. Haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dude.... you want me to move on?! how about you stop following me around trying to start shit? I promised to tone down my Genesis jabs and I have. this is a serious question. I have always felt that the Genesis system is relatively slow to respond to commands and I'm curious to know if it is a fact. I asked this question before but Halifax deleted (or moved to some other site of which I am not a member) the post in which I asked, so I've brought the inquiry to a place that seems to be the most appropriate place to ask. I didn't use the term Genesissies and I didn't tease any grown men that should be able to handle it had I done so. I don't know why you feel the need to be useless prick, but yet here you are, poking at the supposed deviant. I've studied the aspects of the herd mentality that encourage the weak to pick on those that seem to be weaker due to their perceived differences and I must say that being that guy bullying the "other" is not indicative of anything good about the actor. plus, when the victim is articulate and strong, it is quite often that the most aggressive participant in trying to force an exiling action is not the "winner" in the battle. I suggest you answer the actual question at hand and/or move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol. OK. Ive never noticed any particular delay. Playing online there is an extra delay associated with the ping you get, & it still doesn't impact gameplay.

The only times ive noticed a lag is using a server rather than hamachi. The acceptable ping seems to be in the 50s & under. Over 60 & you start to notice a delay.Playing from Mexico I can only do hamachi as there are no servers that give me ping under about 65, and playing friends in England it gets up over 100 & would be a joke if it wasn't just as bad for the guy the other end.

Under normal conditions vs the computer or via a Hamachi connection there is no noticeable problem unless there is a lag issue with the connection.

So basically, there is no issue with response times big enough to impact gameplay on the Genesis version, which it seems like you were trying to imply

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my question isn't about ping between two computers but the time between when you press a button on a console's controller and when the result is processed for display on a screen. think hardware, not servers... consoles, not computers. the side question is about the two major Genesis emulators and if they made the controller response time better or worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something else I thought of here too: When you play online against guys like, say Carse or Kingraph for example there are times when they'll score a goal using an incredibly quick, short distance one-timer when they're just reacting to a defensive error, or the puck just breaking for them or something. They do the play so fast that, first of all I won't even have seen the play was on, let alone had a chance to react to it.

What's more is that because the distance of the pass to set up the one-timer is often so small, and the pass so fast, if there was any sort of delay the play simply wouldn't work, because there's no time, given the distance of the pass to accommodate a delay in button response time. Any significant, game-affecting response delay would make that play impossible - Therefore no "torturously long" delay between pressing a button and seeing the reaction on the screen i'm afraid. It seriously must be more in your imagination.

I know you think people are just trying to devalue your opinion when they talk about how you don't play online, but playing against the very best players you learn new things about the game, and in this case you'd see the impact of a cross-continent connection on response times..........which is minimal & usually not noticeable at all.

As someone so dedicated to this game I actually think you'd greatly benefit from online play. not so much as a player, because I don't think that's your interest, but certainly in order to increase your knowledge of how the game works & the effects of the programming etc on game play at the very highest level of play.

Edit after seeing your comment: I know you're not talking about ping. My point is when you play online there is an extra delay that comes from being connected to another player over a large distance........................which is usually not noticeable at all, which shows that the delay when you are playing on the same machine is even less...............thought that was obvious?

Edited by LA Robbie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if the difference in controller response time between 16ms and whatever it is at which the Genesis console operates bothers me, do you really think adding a ping delay to the equation is going to do anything besides annoy me further?

as for facing "the best" online somehow being better than playing the dozens of players that thought they were the best in their respective neighborhoods, I'm not "the best" and I don't feel the need to prove that I am. I went to a top international college that brought geniuses together in a partying atmosphere. SNES '94 was the big deal on campus. we had a collection of varied playing styles and opportunities to learn "new" things. I know I'd rather play in person where you can have recourse against cheaters and controller throwers. I'm 35 years old. I'm not into online gaming. much like I'd rather have a conversation in person rather than on somebody's faceybooky wall, I'd rather play the game sitting next to my opponent and friend than suffer ping delays and disconnections from trying to play a guy hundreds of miles away.

thank you for your concern, though.

what number of microseconds do you think online SNES play with great Internet connections and nearby opponents adds to the estimated emulated delay of 16ms? I'd bet it's more than the difference between SNES and Genesis hardware that already makes me frustrated with the Genesis console. never mind playing somebody in another country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hah he hates the Genesis so much because he's been playing with a broken one his whole life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've played on a few. until recently I had a third generation model. it wasn't broken. it played just like all of the rest do. thanks for participating, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha. Gotta love the way Trudatman thinks he's in some sort of intellectual battle in these threads. Desperate to put himself on the intellectual high ground in all these discussions with comments like "I went to a top international college that brought geniuses together" lol. Like somehow that makes his opinions more valid.............and not at all pretentious. He doesn't play online, where the top end players are basically the best in the world (If that really means anything) but doesn't think playing against them would help improve his knowledge of the game because he once won a dorm-room round-robbin with Bill Gates & Stephen Hawkins.

Silly thing is he regularly just ignores the comments you've made that he can't think of an answer for. My point (Which the international college genius apparently can't understand) was that if the Genesis response time delay was anything significant, guys like Carse, Kingraph & the other top Genesis players wouldn't be able to successfully execute some of the incredibly fast plays that they do if they were playing on an actual machine, let alone when they're playing against someone on the other side of the continent!

The fact that these plays work over a long distance online connection proves that there is no significant, gameplay affecting response time delay on the Genesis version, thus debunking your perception of some problem with the Genesis..................so you'll have to think of some other reason why SNES is better........................I heard it gets 3 degrees hotter than the SNES after about 1.7 hours constant usage. Might wanna look into that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is this guy talking about? There is no delay in gens that is noticeable. If there was, I wouldn't be playing. Also, lag and disconnections are rare in my experience.

Edited by jackandjose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah.. trudatman's mission in life is to bash the Sega Genesis in anyway he can.. But when someone makes some nice hacks/edits for the GENS 94 ROM, he begs them to do it for SNES :D

Edited by PlabaxV2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly being a kid who played SNES until July this year, I have found no differences other than weight bug, and SNES Ice logos seem a bit less bright than GENS ice logos. I don't even know what console I am wanting to play on this fall because I love them both

Edited by Seano7302

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....There is no delay in gens that is noticeable....

well, I notice a difference in response between the two systems. my mission isn't to bash, but to inform. I very much want to know what the controller response time difference is between systems. this isn't easy information to find. my searches lead mostly to discussions about Call Of Duty players finding that the PS3 has 150ms delay which they find to be infuriating compared to PC gaming. going form SNES to Genesis produces similar frustrations for me.

my point about college is that I've had my fun being beaten by great players and beating them back. SNES '94 was very serious business on campus. I don't feel the drive/need to dilute the technical quality of the gameplay just to dicksize with a bunch of people who already don't like me. I'm sure it's fun, but I have friends to play in person. you are all welcome to drop in for a match if you feel the need to school me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's 16ms for SNES and Genesis on the hardware. Games normally poll the controllers once per frame, or every 16ms (~60Hz - which is the usual vertical refresh rate of a television). The polling is normally done during a Vertical Blank period, which is the time it takes for a CRT TV to move its electron beam from the bottom of the TV back to the top, to begin scanning a new video frame. Blank intervals and refresh rates are part of the NTSC or PAL standards (depending on where you live - PAL is for Europe, NTSC pretty much everywhere else).

16ms is an eternity to a computer, but a person cannot tell how short of a time that is. Hence, why you never were able to see the 16ms "lag" of hitting a button and seeing its effect.

I would think emulators would emulate the hardware, so the 16ms delay between controller polls would be the same on the computer. Emulator designers could speed that up if they wanted to.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the actual answer, chaos! "maybe" I'm crazy, but I swear I have time to get up, make a pizza, wait for it to cool a bit, eat it and burp before pressing the button makes the player shoot, but there is apparently something else going on there. thanks again for the response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that's essentially the quickest it can be. The game programmer can choose how often to check for button presses. Though in a sports game, I would think they would check it every 16ms.

When playing on a modern TV, there will be some added delay. This is because the TV has to take the video image from the console in its native resolution (the most common for SNES was 256x224, Genesis was mostly 320x224 I think) and make it fit the native resolution of the TV. The TV takes the image, changes the resolution, and displays it on the screen.

If you want the least amount of "lag", play on a CRT television or monitor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chaos = Brilliant

Agreed. Incredible. You're not an International College Genius are you Chaos?

It's 16ms for SNES and Genesis on the hardware. Games normally poll the controllers once per frame, or every 16ms (~60Hz - which is the usual vertical refresh rate of a television). The polling is normally done during a Vertical Blank period, which is the time it takes for a CRT TV to move its electron beam from the bottom of the TV back to the top, to begin scanning a new video frame. Blank intervals and refresh rates are part of the NTSC or PAL standards (depending on where you live - PAL is for Europe, NTSC pretty much everywhere else).

16ms is an eternity to a computer, but a person cannot tell how short of a time that is. Hence, why you never were able to see the 16ms "lag" of hitting a button and seeing its effect.

I would think emulators would emulate the hardware, so the 16ms delay between controller polls would be the same on the computer. Emulator designers could speed that up if they wanted to.

But to translate, what he's basically saying is:

"If the Genesis response time delay was anything significant, guys like Carse, Kingraph & the other top Genesis players wouldn't be able to successfully execute some of the incredibly fast plays that they do if they were playing on an actual machine, let alone when they're playing against someone on the other side of the continent!

The fact that these plays work over a long distance online connection proves that there is no significant, gameplay affecting response time delay on the Genesis version, thus debunking your perception of some problem with the Genesis..................so you'll have to think of some other reason why SNES is better........................I heard it gets 3 degrees hotter than the SNES after about 1.7 hours constant usage. Might wanna look into that."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having just recently played both the genesis and snes versions extensively, to add to this OP, as far as the games themselves are concerned, I noticed that the genesis version plays a bit smoother. As if it's running at a slightly higher framerate or something. Gameplay is a bit tighter on genesis. On snes players feel a bit "heavier", they glide further and faster when you press the check button. It's a bit easier to score on the snes version. For it's time, the graphics and sound were way better on the snes. The players are smaller but I guess the idea was to make it more proprotional to the rink which is cool. It opens up the rink, but I guess EA made up for that by making the players a bit too fast and "heavy" in my opinion. I noticed that it's easier to make a pass in snes. I get a higher percentage of successful passes. I didn't notice any difference in button response time between the two...

Edited by Jerk_store12345

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2013 at 7:39 AM, PlabaxV2 said:

Hah he hates the Genesis so much because he's been playing with a broken one his whole life

:D:lol::lol::D hahaha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2013 at 8:17 AM, LA Robbie said:

Haha. Gotta love the way Trudatman thinks he's in some sort of intellectual battle in these threads. Desperate to put himself on the intellectual high ground in all these discussions with comments like "I went to a top international college that brought geniuses together" lol. Like somehow that makes his opinions more valid.............and not at all pretentious. He doesn't play online, where the top end players are basically the best in the world (If that really means anything) but doesn't think playing against them would help improve his knowledge of the game because he once won a dorm-room round-robbin with Bill Gates & Stephen Hawkins.

Silly thing is he regularly just ignores the comments you've made that he can't think of an answer for. My point (Which the international college genius apparently can't understand) was that if the Genesis response time delay was anything significant, guys like Carse, Kingraph & the other top Genesis players wouldn't be able to successfully execute some of the incredibly fast plays that they do if they were playing on an actual machine, let alone when they're playing against someone on the other side of the continent!

The fact that these plays work over a long distance online connection proves that there is no significant, gameplay affecting response time delay on the Genesis version, thus debunking your perception of some problem with the Genesis..................so you'll have to think of some other reason why SNES is better........................I heard it gets 3 degrees hotter than the SNES after about 1.7 hours constant usage. Might wanna look into that.

:lol: schooled.  Hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.