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What if the community had listened to hokkee?

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I'm not mad and drink like once or twice a month.  Appreciate your concern but you can go back to your Looney Toons programming without me.  I call you out when you when think your constant complaining in a league chat doesn't ruin it for everyone.  I've asked many guys, and you are a buzz kill.  You've changed & that's why I keep calling you out.  

I know that I've watched Plabax try to steer conversations numerous times before.  This one was obvious as he pretends to want opinions and then does his norm.

Number of guys who left the site cause of me to date is zero, FYI.  Skipped over that part of Raph's post cause it doesn't fit your narrative.  I've had guys ask me before joining Plabax was joining cause they hate you.  I've now had a few ask about Seth cause he complains so much.

i thought Depch has given you numerous solid suggestions that don't sound too far off some of the aim chat groups I had with both of you during the last 2 GDL's.  You want to just keep booting everyone but miss the math.

 

There are not & will not likely be 16, much less 24 coaches that will fit into your rigid formula.  I'd prefer to play in these type of leagues TOO.  I'm the guy who always plays his ganes, plays exis & joins all the leagues I can, so faster pace & stricter guidelines help me.

But, you ignore Depch solid points.  You ignored them when I made them.  Now you want to claim my league effects the progress Plabax made.  That's lunacy at its finest.  I make my own league & set rules & let guys IN you wouldn't, you don't join, but I'm hurting the site.

 

And next time I've got 10 hours to try to search through this dumb forum, I'll try to find hokkee's post about you ruining the game.  It's there.  

But aside from that, there is NO PROOF that lack of structure in leagues is what caused the games decline in members.  It's your opinion & I just don't agree.  

And aside from you two pounding the same drum, I don't hear it elsewhere either.  Does it help, NO!  

 

I get that.  But you guys miss all the other relevant points.  Which is part of your mental challenges.  Again, everyone but you two see you two have obvious issues, for real.  

 

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The lack of player base is because of poor league structure. Check this out:

I looked at Tecmo, a community that gets a much higher percentage of their games played, and tried to tell you guys WHY that is. It's because of how the league is run. There is no other reason.

In ONE year, Tecmo can produce quadruple to 8x the leagues with 100% GP with LESS turnover and MORE coaches playing than we do in FIVE years. When I first came to the NHL '94 community, we were on GDL 9 and Blitz 06, and they were on season 22. Now they are on season 39, and we finished season 16 of GDL, and 11 of Blitz. We went through Blitz 07-11, GDL 09-16 without 100% GP ONCE. These guys get 100% GP like it's nothing. 

Now what is more likely to cause a lack of interest: Waiting 71 weeks for season to end, uncompleted finals (2010 classic is STILL in finals, lol!), delayed playoffs (2012 Classic finished August 30th), no checkpoints, seeing nobody online, everyone slacking on purpose, etc.

OR

A league that's fast-paced, has CLEAR and STRICT rules, gets 100% GP ALL the time, and gives incentive to play.

Like I said, I FORGOT that I was even in classic when I was a noob. Not once, but twice this happened to me. And similar things happened to dozens of noobs over their time here, and even within the same leagues I played in. Multiple guys would just vanish during the season.

Make your pick.

-----------------------------

Had we listened to hokkee's suggestions, we would definitely have more people (and interest) at this point. We could have easily been like Tecmo and been on GDL 39 and Blitz 36 or at least GDL 35 and Blitz 30 or whatever with a healthy 24 coaches in each. It's not a poor opinion.

-----------------------------------

Those guys that left because of me, left primarily because there was nothing else to look forward to. Why would kupuck and xdbx stay to play in a league with 25% GP completion and 14 weeks of slacking? The FUN of the community was not high enough to justify staying. Had the leagues been structured well, those guys would have stayed and just blocked me. 

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Do the tecmo leagues draft? Likely not. The most popular league is classic because it is the most accessible, and provides nostalgia. 

While Yeats' Second Coming was posted as a somewhat preposterous joke, the message and meaning remain relevant.

I hate complaining about slacking except when it was Hokee because he was so consistently amusing with his slacking rants. It was from my point of view his MO.

Edited by kylewat

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On 9/23/2016 at 8:54 PM, hokkeefan said:

First of all all this pass shot goals and cb check neeed to be OUT of this game!.
Next these leagues need to be wayyy shorter to keep the flow and excitement going !!( this is really important !!!!)
Lets go back to when NHL94 was da s**t and everyone had fun and we were all active and having fun !!
Especially for the new people who come to this site and expect to have fun and play HOCKEY the way hockey is supposed to be played !!
No more bullshit , time to go back to when it was fun for everyone !!!

Screw you guys who all gang up and shutdown any good ideas , TIME TO WAKE UP !!!!

 

 

While the NEXT like 5 posts BY HOKKEE are ALL just about leagues, slackers, shorter terms and less coaches per league, there was more than quite a FEW times where Hokkee was HEAVILY blaming the B shot & C/B for ruining the game.

 

On 6/17/2014 at 10:10 AM, hokkeefan said:

Wondering what you all think now that you have to be a pro pass shooter to make it far in 94 now.

What happened to playing the good ol hockey game without glitching ?!!!

Most of his rants where in chat, but it's obvious he hated slackers, had zero tolerance for them, but ALSO felt glitches ruined the game.

 

SO, you ignore his warning about the glitches but love to quote him about the leagues not being strict enough.

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I'd like to comment on this though:

 

I'd love to see this site more active.  I believe that it's a real fun game and most of the guys come here wanting to have some fun and play a game I love too.  Some think everyone comes here to compete.  I believe IF I wanted the BEST of the BEST, I'd go play a game with like a million players playing the game, instead of 20-50 people.  Then being the "best" would mean so much more.  To me, I love a lot of Depch's suggestions and think they have more chances of being successful than your delusional idea.  Many years ago, if you were SO RIGHT, you had options.

 

You both could have created your OWN SITE.  You could have invited any of the SO MANY GREAT players to your site, built it up with your strict rules and leagues and had like 500 players by now.  The reason you didn't is noone likes you & you two would be playing by yourself.  You don't want to see how this site's limitations contributed to anything, or you are playing a flawed game setup in an age when you can just plug in a console and jam with 50 guys plus ONLINE and chat, taunt, talk to them, email, etc.  But, you did NOT create your own site.

 

Instead, you find it easier to haunt here with your stupid rants & do your "I told you so, Hokkee told you so..." blah blah blah

I have run the most leagues of late by a mile.  I have everyone's cell phones.  I get guys telling me they don't have time to play and I get involved when guys struggle to find each other.  I had to replace so many coaches over the past few GDL's it's stupid.  We finished the last GDL WITHOUT enough coaches to RESTART the next season.  The reasons those coaches quit/didn't play was they didn't have the time to play or couldn't play when most other guys were on. SO, time goes by and you start a league.

You had to kick 3 of your 16 out.  The completion percentage of the entire league was 6 games off, so quoting 100% is just BS.  TO RESTART Plabs Season 2, you have to drop down to 13 coaches now.

AND YOU DON'T SEE Depch warning you that the more elitist you go, how it quickly dwindles to not having enough coaches to even run a league????  You will be at 10 coaches before Season 3.

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Anyhow, I made my league to include 20 coaches.  Many of them are B coaches who have not had a chance to play against other guys similar to their skill set for some time.  With Classic being cancelled, I thought it important I try to be inclusive and help out.

 

For those new, who read this, understand, I look forward to seeing many of you hop on & try to get more involved.  New players learning the game can be fun.  You see Raph & others trying to get you more into it because the more, the merrier. I will likely continue to try to keep at least a B style league running in the future through the ET TU BRUTE league as with it being Blitz ROM, at least half of the bugs are out of it, and it lends to better play for a newcomer.

Ignore these two squirrels.  They have been out trying to get a nut for so long they've gone nuts.

 

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I think this is what was needed to have some constructive thoughts and to clearly clear some air of the thoughts of how to make things go forward and steer the online community. There is no need to dwelve in to personal matters. This topic and thread can be turned in to a real beneficial topic.

Do I think that leagues were prolonged too much and slack was allowed? Yes, Hokkee was right there. There should have been a more proactive way to things earlier and not be afraid to be more strict to some players and lose them. I don't want the slack be allowed to continue how it was before, but as strict as plablegs does not perhaps work for all, but there is definately need for such a league as well for the hardcore players. What I also don't want is that we don't close the door from players by only having closed leagues.

Now understand this, yes it's important to keep hardcore players happy as they are the core of the group carrying the torch onwards. Having _ONLY_ strictly selective leagues will result in the leagues _ONLY_ be run for the means of the few and like Brutus understood eventually only for the few.

There must exist more open leagues like Classic for everyone to participate and perhaps the B / C levels for possible newcomers. Also something like a ladder (KO94 style, bo3?) could be nice for those who even don't have the chance to complete more loosely scheduled leagues but still sometimes want to play a game or few.

Let's say 50$ shared for KO94 ladder top places by charity to gather some minor interest per month. I'll throw in 10$ a month for that charity pot. No matter the amount, some gamers are always attracted to money and it might keep the activity up as well there. Just check the legal rights worked out so it's not illegal, have server in such a state where it's fine.

I must repeat that this community lives of NHL94 and NHL94 and it's popularity has nothing to do with our leagues. At best a community tries to bring everyone together and once it starts cutting themselves off from the rest, it's due to go downhill.

And while a lot of the criticism and improvement suggestions seems to go back to the guys who have made this community thrive in Chaos, Halifax, Evan etc. by amateur work without any wages. It is just the energy and will from people to see the things take a leap forward. We must thank you and I don't think many of us remember to do that often enough.

And if we the critics are not willing to put any work to go in, there probably is no room to be a critic at all. We must also ask what can I do to help here? Plabax took a step forward in creating a top competitive league and showing example with more strict rules, that was needed to clear some air. Brutus has taken off a fair share of running some leagues and organizing drafts and Raph has put some work in as well. I'm also available to be used as well if help is required somewhere. I know I have not taken much of a proactive way to help the newcomers for example so perhaps I will promise to be more active helping them out on the boards and not overlook things. We all have to watch the mirror too.

And Brutus, I'm not perhaps smarter than they are as per intelligence, but I do think I draw off from a broader viewpoint of things. Thinking things of multiple perspectives, not only my own. I'm a gamer, a thinker, a visionaire, artistic, I create and combine theories, some spot on and some horribly wrong and that's okay, usually more spot on. Poor at executing things to their end, so I'm more of a dreamer than a doer, working on to change that. :)

Edited by Depch

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Thinking of what Hokkee suggested as well, perhaps there even would be a calling for a gentlemanly B/C-level league aimed for newcomers and casual players to make a transition easier where CB/B-shots etc. are not used (Classic C / some separate league). Those who want can then take a jump towards the more competitive leagues. The community as a whole cannot be made to adapt to such things.

League types:

A ) KO94 based ladder?
B ) Classic
C ) Plablegs type eliteleague
D ) GDL?
E ) Wbfixed dynasty type
F ) Velocity (Modern rosters)
G ) Newcomer/gentlemans (or implement this to Classic B/C-league)?
H ) Random tournaments/small leagues (fantasy, oldschool rosters, princes & paupers etc.)

I know I would have a hard time participating in all of them and I would become exhausted being involved in all of them if they interlapse with eachother. So the problem comes down to player base that has been the talk here and league planning in a larger sense with the schedules.

In a sense KO94 type league/ladder would interlapse with Classic league type, but Classic is so traditional that is it possible to move away from, it's one of my favourite leagues as well. KO94 type of thing would be a thing to make a jump forward towards the way events are played live, I think online should have a mimic of that. Perhaps there is room for both if KO94 would be a ladder but not a league. Monthly rewards for KO94 ladder, albeit small ones.

Plablegs type eliteleague where luck is reduced and is mainly an invitational is a thing that is required to keep some of the hardcore players interested, but not all leagues can take this approach.

I am not much of a fan of the wbfixed league type, especially now that CB has brought the classic physics and wbfixed ones closer to eachother. I wanted especially give my support to one now because there is no Classic for Gens this spring. But there is probably popularity among this with the ones who are not yet that adapted to CB. I understand that Velocity already runs as wbfixed league as well. Perhaps Brute league could act as more newcomer friendly like he said himself in his previous post.

GDL has a huge tradition so it would be a shame to see it go shambles, but it did happen to Blitz as well. There is evolution in leagues as in life. It is overlapping a bit with the idea of Plablegs so running them both at the same time could be harmfull and causing overcommitment. GDL is open to everyone getting in though. Perhaps a longer break is due here, it can be revived on a later date. Requires much thinking what to do with it.

There are surely people that want to play with modern rosters, so a league with real teams or draft based on current rosters is surely answering for a call in Velocity.

I have also always liked fantasy type leagues, we ran a few of them in Finland and the tournament run by Donny was fun as well. It also provides more room to modify team to your liking and reduces the luck part even more, perhaps the some of the elite league seasons could be run as a fantasy type so it doesn't have to be an additional one. Also the Princes and Paupers is a nice change and challenge for A players with B guys.

---

Scheduling the leagues:

A ) KO94 Ladder is run 24/7
B ) Classic every fall and every spring
C ) Plablegs type elite league whenever there is calling, not much related to the other leagues and it can be ongoing and very active as the core of this league can be very selective about the others as well.
D ) GDL would have room for a once per year thing at max in my mind if we want to keep it alive. Summer time is quiet usually so it definately should not be there, more like mid winter to reduce the overlapse with Classic leagues as much as possible.
E & F ) I think the current Brutus league type or even Blitz & Velocity have a call whenever there is just enough players up for them. It can clearly be an ongoing thing. Perhaps there could be some shared interest in these ones (As do options A/B, C/D).
G ) No clue are there enough players for such league as of current, only if things improve, perhaps it can be implemented to some of the existing ones and if not, then as Classic C (or B if others are put to A) barring enough interest. 
H ) Whenever there is a calling for whatever.

I would be most interested in A-D types and think I could commit to them easily without getting drained out. I might even give support to the gentlemans league especially if it was in Classic. The others as supportive to help others get games in, but not as a 100% participant rate, very much depending on situation in current energy and interest levels.

We also have to remember that for the live events players might want to get to know the other platform as well, so there is the interest in SNES as well for some.

This is just my suggestion about the macro schedules for building more structure to the site, but here I am opinionated on my own perspective of what is popular and what I like. Scheduling & deadlines then for the specific leagues (micro schedules) to keep the macro rolling properly. This requires some planning as the community as a whole and Chaos willing to share some load for others being able to kick off some leagues and playoffs is necessary also for nhl94online.com to keep the pace up once things get rolling.

Edited by Depch

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12 hours ago, Brutus said:

I'd like to comment on this though:

 

I'd love to see this site more active.  I believe that it's a real fun game and most of the guys come here wanting to have some fun and play a game I love too.  Some think everyone comes here to compete.  I believe IF I wanted the BEST of the BEST, I'd go play a game with like a million players playing the game, instead of 20-50 people.  Then being the "best" would mean so much more.  To me, I love a lot of Depch's suggestions and think they have more chances of being successful than your delusional idea.  Many years ago, if you were SO RIGHT, you had options.

 

You both could have created your OWN SITE.  You could have invited any of the SO MANY GREAT players to your site, built it up with your strict rules and leagues and had like 500 players by now.  The reason you didn't is noone likes you & you two would be playing by yourself.  You don't want to see how this site's limitations contributed to anything, or you are playing a flawed game setup in an age when you can just plug in a console and jam with 50 guys plus ONLINE and chat, taunt, talk to them, email, etc.  But, you did NOT create your own site.

 

Instead, you find it easier to haunt here with your stupid rants & do your "I told you so, Hokkee told you so..." blah blah blah

I have run the most leagues of late by a mile.  I have everyone's cell phones.  I get guys telling me they don't have time to play and I get involved when guys struggle to find each other.  I had to replace so many coaches over the past few GDL's it's stupid.  We finished the last GDL WITHOUT enough coaches to RESTART the next season.  The reasons those coaches quit/didn't play was they didn't have the time to play or couldn't play when most other guys were on. SO, time goes by and you start a league.

You had to kick 3 of your 16 out.  The completion percentage of the entire league was 6 games off, so quoting 100% is just BS.  TO RESTART Plabs Season 2, you have to drop down to 13 coaches now.

AND YOU DON'T SEE Depch warning you that the more elitist you go, how it quickly dwindles to not having enough coaches to even run a league????  You will be at 10 coaches before Season 3.

Nobody listened to hokkee. That is the main reason those type of leagues weren't around. I didn't buy in to what hokkee had to say, and I didn't care about slacking. Are you not understanding the thread?? lol. What does me creating a site in the past have to do with anything? I wasn't even around when the slacking problems were becoming an issue. Go back as far as 2005, and you can see major slacking. The POINT is, everyone brushed hokkee aside whenever he spoke, but had we listened, we would have more ACTIVE players.

Had the leagues been strict and well-structured from the start, we could easily be at GDL 35 and we would definitely have 24 coaches that could play 100% GP.

Again, you fail to understand WHY guys aren't around to play GDL anymore. It's mainly because there is not a high enough interest level. There is no interest level because the leagues were poorly run. It's not because of time. Like I already said, Tecmo leagues have MORE coaches, LESS replacements, and HIGHER game percentage completion. If time were an issue, then they would be suffering the same problems. However, they are NOT, so that cannot be the reason. The demographics of the communities are nearly identical. What sense would it make for every single person with a lack of time to be from the NHL'94 community? How could it be that we can't get a league with 100% GP in five years, whereas Tecmo can produce 4-8 every year? I guess the guys at Tecmo have all the time in the world.

You are completely missing the point:

I had to kick 3 of 16 to make a sacrifice. And it's not like I'm not kicking them from the community. Just because I kicked Icestorm, it doesn't mean that he can never play again. What it's supposed to mean is that he hopefully won't slack and miss his games anymore. If you keep kicking people out for breaking the rules and show that you're strict, people will stop slacking. why you had to replace so many coaches in GDL is because so many players didn't take the league seriously, so they didn't bother to play.

When guys text you saying they have no time, you are misinterpreting what they have to say. What they mean is that the league isn't worth their time. If the league were good enough, they would MAKE the time.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Premium said:

Nobody listened to hokkee.

You are completely missing the point:

I had to kick 3 of 16 to make a sacrifice. And it's not like I'm not kicking them from the community. Just because I kicked Icestorm, it doesn't mean that he can never play again.

 

 

 

Ok, from a straight argumentative point of view, you can't take half of a guys warning, and ignore them, and then profess the other half to be Nostradamus & all.  I disagree with your assessment on how the site/leagues would be if handled different, but it's not worth arguing.

 

It might not be YOUR POINT, on that I'm not 100%.  I DO KNOW that in general, the "strict" crowd pretty much has a SLACKER & GONE policy.  Even advocated being banned from OTHER LEAGUES on the site if banned from any of them.  So, I'm not making it up when I suggest you are down to 13 coaches.  This is the elite mentality that will lead to 10 coaches in your league by Season 3. 

I revert back to your argument to bring back Houly just to find an A player rather than have to promote an unqualified B player into the Classic A.  So, that was like 3 years ago.  The search for A level players if you just booted one, and a few of the others won't play with you gets slim fast.  The lack of A guys around to play was the main argument for giving Houly a second chance.  Before scolding me for allowing french players with weak connections or some of the B level players that have slacked before, WHO do you see as getting you to 16 coaches next season?

 

I'd like to see that list before furthering the idea that my open league is somehow killing your buzz.

 

AND, I put guidelines up.  I put up playoff guidelines.  I replace coaches when they fall too far behind.  I've done it for the past 2 GDL's more than the 1st one I ran.  I extended a season by one week and allowed 2 weeks for playoff series (same YOU HAVE DONE!), and listened to you openly complain about not getting your series in the first week.  IN ADDITION, I had to listen to you rant in the chat about NOT having tighter playoff deadlines, but I gave them 2 weeks & you have given as much if not more.

 

You are running your league.  You allowed more time than I did in playoffs.  You have kicked out Ice, CBK & Chef, so you need 3 coaches.  There are NOT 3 A level coaches waiting, so IF there is no Classic/new blood, where are you finding the 3 replacements for them?  I just don't see you actually acknowledging my point.

 

I WANT FASTER LEAGUES.  I WANT TIGHTER DEADLINES.  I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS ON BOARD WITH THIS BELIEF TO BE ABLE TO ENFORCE IT IN MY LEAGUES I HAVE RUN.  I DO NOT SEE YOU DOING ANY BETTER.  The majority of the guys on this site DO NOT want to play in an 8 team league, so that's why I try to structure the leagues to fit what everyone as a collective whole want.

 

Where am I off?

 

 

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Playoffs for Plablegs has been going on for two weeks? Not a chance. If you think seven days is equal to two weeks, maybe that's why you didn't understand why I was ranting so much in your chat.

Brutus, a week is seven days. Now you won't be confused next time you need to use that term.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Being an "A" or a "B" player has absolutely nothing to do with Plablegs. Plablegs is for both A and B players.

I advocated for an "A" player to be in the Classic "A" league. Suggesting that people who are not "A" level players not be in the "A" league is not elitist. Houly also had played MANY leagues without many issues, which is why we asked in the first place. He was a solid "A" player who didn't slack and should (in the opinion of many) been unbanned. How does this relate to elitist attitude in anyway? You have TWO job candidates competing for one position: one is qualified, the other is not... It's elitist to suggest that the one who is qualified should get the job? Not really.

And guess what, smozoma denied ME access to play in Blitz "A" because he didn't think I was an "A" player at the time. Instead he gave someone TWO teams. Raph or Hali skipped ME for dcicon when promoting the "B" coaches to "A" via. replacement in the 2012 Fall Classic. Oh well, it's not elitist.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, where is the elite mentality in Tecmo? Care to answer why they don't have 10 coaches playing? My mentality is the exact same mentality as many Tecmo members, and they have less turnover than we do. The answer IS because they have strict deadlines that the players respect. They take it serious.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we advocate for players to be banned. But in the long run it will work. The idea behind it is that, if you let the guys know that you are serious, they will eventually stop the slacking. Slacking is there mainly because many coaches don't feel the league is serious. Yes, I booted three guys, but now the chances of them slacking again is much lower than it was before. Eventually, you will end up removing 99.9% of the slacking once everyone knows slacking really won't be tolerated. Not only that, but you will raise your interest level. Slacking is a huge turnoff for many, and it's linked to the lack of interest we see. Poor league structures that are not taken seriously and encourage slacking = lack of interest. See ba55ist and dozens of others who have left.

It's a sacrifice that has to be made.

It's like prison. You put those who have broken the law in jail, and hopefully when they get out they won't break the law again. Or it's like trying to potty train a dog. If you reward the dog for shitting and pissing in your house, then it's going to keep shitting and pissing in your house. But if you let the dog know that it HAS to go outside to do whatever, then it will begin to do whatever it takes to not s**t or piss in your house.

I had a teacher who would give an extension every time you told him your assignment was incomplete. It got to the point where we were able to push him to the final day of classes. Had he given us a 0 the first time, we wouldn't have tried to push him a second time. It's the same concept here.

Edited by Premium

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Season ended Feb 5th, playoff deadline released today is February 16th, so you are correct that it has not been 2 weeks.   IT HAS BEEN MORE THAN A WEEK.

 

So my main counter point is this:

You once recently argued guys should play their games within first week or forfeit for playoffs.  (See the AJ situation)
You also once argued to BAN a guy if he is booted from a league for at least a year from all other leagues.
Houly argument was about allowing a good A player in because he played his games AND the other option was to let a B player into A.

 

My point is, even 3 years ago, you were LOW ON A PLAYERS. 
Currently, the camp of the "strict", no flexibility includes arguments from Seth.  He is a strong advocate of booting & banning in the past. 
IF your league of choice is NOT mainly A, then you can re-supply with new C/B players that want "in" on the action, but based on all your previous arguments FOR GDL & Classic, the general theme usually was "A...A...A...A...A".

 

Now, the final faulty leap in logic.
IF you have a right arm & throw 100 mph, then I have a right arm also, and should then throw 100 mph.
NO.  There are other factors.
TECMO had a LARGER pool of players, and a different game, different structure.  Obviously, for them to run off 30 plus leagues means guys like doing the same league over & over & over & over & over, and they had enough of them available to force guidelines and create the atmosphere that IF you wanted into TECMO, these are the rules.

It's longer success could have been based on many other factors.  #1 to me, the most OBVIOUS, is FOOTBALL is 10,000 times more popular than hockey.

 

PRE-SEASON FOOTBALL beats NHL Game 6 ratings between the Blackhawks & the Bruins!!  Come on man.  Face reality that while your point might be ONE of the factors, acting like it IS THE ANSWER is just foolish.

 

Worse to me, is I feel that this argument started on the basis that might league is somehow detrimental to what you are trying to change.  It's flawed logic, and has derailed the true, best ideas I've heard to help build league traffic by Depch, Raph & even some points by you.

Seth has no good points.  Ever. Sad.

 

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TBH I think a lot of the reason for the lost interest in 94 is the game is getting older, and less people are interested as they get older, and younger guys for the most part don't want to play an old Genesis, or Super Nintendo game with players they never heard of.

Also another thing that I think is HUGE is the emulator, Kaillera, Hamachi for Genesis sucks balls, and the SNES version of the game sucks balls.

I've been here playing since fall 2014, and the same elite guys are elite, literally in the last 2 years not one person who wasn't already here has even challenged for an A title, or an elite league like GDL title, so this tells me there just isn't enough interest in this game anymore, or you would be getting gamers coming in, and quickly challenging, and that is not the case.

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S

28 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

 

Also another thing that I think is HUGE is the emulator, Kaillera, Hamachi for Genesis sucks balls, and the SNES version of the game sucks balls.

 

So, when I FIRST started playing, I had a friend at work who was betting me money he could beat me in NHL '94.  When I tried to find a Genesis to play the game on, I came across a bunch of them for like $200-300, and this site.  Obviously, we went with this site. 

Since we didn't KNOW to not play with WIFI, we tried for like 2 weeks, all with disconnects galore.  I ended up bringing two generic joysticks to work, and plugging them into the computer & playing him there (and beating his butt).   This gave us hope we'd figure out how to play online together, and we used NOSE to do a custom draft between us for a tourney with like 3 teams each.   Loaded up & all excited.

BUT, DUE TO the Hamachi/Gens combo sucking balls, he never joined & we didn't find out about being "hard wired" until he had lost interest.  IF my modem wasn't in my living room and I had a laptop instead of a PC that I could just plug in, I probably would not have joined this site either.

 

I do believe THIS keeps MOST of the new potential players OUT.

 

 

ALSO, currently, you can play 5 guys on the same team for PS4 && X1for the hockey games for the past 2-3 seasons.  You can do custom teams and practice together or just play amongst strangers. THIS is a STRONG pull away from trying to fire up a 20 year old hockey game that you have to be there just when the sun sets and the light reflects just right off the sundial into the secret passage way where knock 3 times on a small door and enter the secret chamber to play :)

 

IF there was a way to UPGRADE GENS, I know this site would grow.  OR A WAY to get this actual game into one of the modern consoles accurately (not that garbage from EA a few years back).

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6 hours ago, Premium said:

 

It's like prison. You put those who have broken the law in jail, and hopefully when they get out they won't break the law again. Or it's like trying to potty train a dog. If you reward the dog for shitting and pissing in your house, then it's going to keep shitting and pissing in your house. But if you let the dog know that it HAS to go outside to do whatever, then it will begin to do whatever it takes to not s**t or piss in your house.

I had a teacher who would give an extension every time you told him your assignment was incomplete. It got to the point where we were able to push him to the final day of classes. Had he given us a 0 the first time, we wouldn't have tried to push him a second time. It's the same concept here.

BOOM!

You got it.

You were banned at least once and were just allowed back under a new name.
You are just pushing it again.
Knowing there will be no consequence, because this is the internet.
You will never show up at a Live Event and if you did you would not act like you do.

You are a great player and for that the top guys want you around as even though most don't like you they like the competition you bring.
I have been teaching and coaching for 25 years and you are exactly right about what you state above.
I would never tolerate you in my class or on my team, but again this is the internet, and I have to tolerate you.

On a positive note, I like many of the things you did in your league.
Quick, Short and with consequences.

I don't like static ratings and no penalties as they it was adds the great variety to this game that we all love, BUT I would play in a league that doesn't match every single thing I like and this is what Brutus is trying to do.  Vary things.  Throw each dog a bone.  

I also think it was mistake not to set hard deadlines for the playoffs and the post you made unnecessarily annoyed people after your hardline regular season

The Bottom Line is this Grasshopper Goodell   
It is named after you Obamacare so their is no hiding who is responsible

You ran a good regular season 1.
You got 13 guys who finished.
Where will you be in a year on Plablegs 2 or 35.
It is all on you.
GAME ON!

And I sincerely hope that your league succeeds.
I hope you will feel the same way about classic, or Brutus's League or any other league.
Because no one is making roms, moderating this web-site, putting on Live Tourney's, making movies, running and creating leagues and web-sites because they don't love this game.  At some point or another you have attacked or put down just about everybody.

And now for one last snarky comment,
I am still predicting you lose in your own league and rage quit or put out some long excuse about why Raph, or AJ or whoever beat you.
If not in Season 1 it will happen before Plablegs 35.

UP
GL!
 

Edited by CoachMac
update

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20 minutes ago, CoachMac said:

On a positive note, I like many of the things you did in your league.
#1 Quick, Short and with consequences.
#2 I like that you did not replace people you kicked out and you deleted the games others played against them.
(It always frustrated me when I missed playing a B guy and he was replaced by an A guy that I had to play)
(I did ask to replace CBK only because he had "0" games played and I felt like because of that replacement would have worked fairly)
(I know you had other offers as well. I hope Brutus will implement this in his league and it catches on with others)

 

In the GDL & Blitz leagues, they keep records from Season 1 through Seasons like 11 & 15 or something.  Deleting games had meaningful consequences against those records and it is WHY I generally did NOT delete games.

 

ALSO, once a guy only had 2 games played.  They were VS TEX.  I deleted the games and gave the new coach a fresh start. 

Tex ended up never getting the games in with the new guy (it's like the ONLY time Tex never finished a season 100% I think!)

 

I will replace guys as needed with replacement coaches to get most of the teams to 50 games played.  56 games is nice, but THE MOST FUN is getting a draft done, getting pre-season exi's in, getting some trades, all the chatter, and then enjoying the playoffs.

 

This sweat over whether a guy played 48 games, or 52 games or 56 games from a 2 month season is dumb.  IMO.

 

Since it's my league, I've decided to try to repair some of the harmony that makes a group of guys able to bond as a group and enjoy the season(s).  I've chosen to focus on making sure we play and have fun playing.

 

But yes, for guys who have to drop out, we will replace their games with someone able to (even if it requires giving a coach already in the league a second team on a temporary basis).

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Quote

In the GDL & Blitz leagues, they keep records from Season 1 through Seasons like 11 & 15 or something.  Deleting games had meaningful consequences against those records and it is WHY I generally did NOT delete games.

 

ALSO, once a guy only had 2 games played.  They were VS TEX.  I deleted the games and gave the new coach a fresh start. 

Tex ended up never getting the games in with the new guy (it's like the ONLY time Tex never finished a season 100% I think!)

That makes sense!

Updated my post and took that out.

Thanks!:D

Edited by CoachMac

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1 hour ago, CoachMac said:

BOOM!

You got it.

You were banned at least once and were just allowed back under a new name.
You are just pushing it again.
Knowing there will be no consequence, because this is the internet.
You will never show up at a Live Event and if you did you would not act like you do.

You are a great player and for that the top guys want you around as even though most don't like you they like the competition you bring.
I have been teaching and coaching for 25 years and you are exactly right about what you state above.
I would never tolerate you in my class or on my team, but again this is the internet, and I have to tolerate you.

On a positive note, I like many of the things you did in your league.
#1 Quick, Short and with consequences.
#2 I like that you did not replace people you kicked out and you deleted the games others played against them.
(It always frustrated me when I missed playing a B guy and he was replaced by an A guy that I had to play)
(I did ask to replace CBK only because he had "0" games played and I felt like because of that replacement would have worked fairly)
(I know you had other offers as well. I hope Brutus will implement this in his league and it catches on with others)

I don't like static ratings and no penalties as they it was adds the great variety to this game that we all love, BUT I would play in a league that doesn't match every single thing I like and this is what Brutus is trying to do.  Vary things.  Throw each dog a bone.  

I also think it was mistake not to set hard deadlines for the playoffs and the post you made unnecessarily annoyed people after your hardline regular season

The Bottom Line is this Grasshopper Goodell   
It is named after you Obamacare so their is no hiding who is responsible

You ran a good regular season 1.
You got 13 guys who finished.
Where will you be in a year on Plablegs 2 or 35.
It is all on you.
GAME ON!

And I sincerely hope that your league succeeds.
I hope you will feel the same way about classic, or Brutus's League or any other league.
Because no one is making roms, moderating this web-site, putting on Live Tourney's, making movies, running and creating leagues and web-sites because they don't love this game.  At some point or another you have attacked or put down just about everybody.

And now for one last snarky comment,
I am still predicting you lose in your own league and rage quit or put out some long excuse about why Raph, or AJ or whoever beat you.
If not in Season 1 it will happen before Plablegs 35.

UP
GL!
 

You are correct. I would not act like I do on the forums at a live event. This is the internet. Am I similar in real life? Nope. I'm a nicer and more laid-back person than most.

On a side note, I was banned for something I never did. The moderators were afraid to hear my backlash if they told me I was right and they were wrong, so they have let my new account go. 

Penalties and non-static do not add great variety to the game. It just adds unnecessary luck. I believe that no penalties and static ratings are objectively better.

I do not even know why I bothered to respond to Icestorm's whining about my deadline. He left for 30% of the season, and probably decided to slack once he got back believing I wouldn't kick him out. I also gave him an extra strike to work with to compensate. Not only that, but his wife controls his play time, so I think he was venting his frustration with that situation on me to ease the feeling.

What is up the community's obsession with me losing and rage quitting? Don't be mad that I always win. Appreciate it.

 

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GL

It will be interesting to see what number Plablegs you reach in a year.

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7 hours ago, Brutus said:

Seth has no good points.  Ever. Sad.

You're such an ineffective troll Brute.  C'mon, up your game.  Everything is c*nt this, c*nt that, blah blah blah.  It's hard to take you seriously because you're so emotional.  Get some new material.  Mix it up a little bit, I'm long past being desensitized.  

My points and stances are exactly the same as Plabs', which of course you can't seem to see.  I don't bother explaining to you because you disregard anything you hear from people who are in your sin-bin.  That's why, if you've long wondered, in the past, you've asked for more in depth explanations from me in various threads and I've just refused to give them to you.  It's the same thing with Plabax; so many people here bash his ideas or just ignore the value of them because they don't approve of how he acts.  But if the same ideas were brought up by the poster-children of this place, the crowd would be applauding and welcome them.  Don't let your personal beefs affect your ability to be open-minded about different ideas.  Picture them being delivered by a different messenger, someone who doesn't get under your skin.

PS, you're starting to sound like Trump now (lol), the way you worded that.  Not going to lie, that is funny.  

Edited by Uncle Seth

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2 minutes ago, Uncle Seth said:

PS, you're starting to sound like Trump now (lol), the way you worded that.  

I was channeling my inner Trump to troll you, and by the LONG responses I got out of you, it's definitely 1-0 Brutus tonight.

Winning, bigly, despite the beat down you gave me last night in the actual game.  WE don't count that here.  You play better angry, which was not good for Brutus.

Dropping you like a bad habit bud.  It's like I replaced the radiator heater in the building and the constant hissing, whining sound with a state of the art central heating system for this league, cause in the chat room, NO WHINING :)

Instead of "Byatches Gone Wild" it just turned into "Byatches Gone".  So peaceful.

Peace out bud.   RANT ON.

 

 

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22 hours ago, Brutus said:

AND YOU DON'T SEE Depch warning you that the more elitist you go, how it quickly dwindles to not having enough coaches to even run a league????  You will be at 10 coaches before Season 3.

I take issue with this "elitist" term you and Depch have placed on our vision of what a league should be.  Neither of us have ever been against lower level players in the league.  If elite to you means we want strict enforcement of clearly laid out rules, then yeah, you could call us that.  Not wanting slackers and those with crappy connections, that's elitist?  I've complained about AJ's and KG's in the past, top level talent.  I've also bashed others who are nowhere near that level.  You're imagining things man and for some reason, trying to paint us as guys who only want to play A coaches.  Ask around, many a B guy can vouch for the advice I've provided over the years.  I'm fine with smaller leagues and favor quality over quantity.  By quality I mean, dependable, decent connection, and easy to get games in with (non-slacker).  Or you can just keep thinking I mean "A".  

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7 minutes ago, Brutus said:

I was channeling my inner Trump to troll you, and by the LONG responses I got out of you, it's definitely 1-0 Brutus tonight.

Winning, bigly, despite the beat down you gave me last night in the actual game.  WE don't count that here.  You play better angry, which was not good for Brutus.

Dropping you like a bad habit bud.  It's like I replaced the radiator heater in the building and the constant hissing, whining sound with a state of the art central heating system for this league, cause in the chat room, NO WHINING :)

Instead of "Byatches Gone Wild" it just turned into "Byatches Gone".  So peaceful.

Peace out bud.   RANT ON.

 

 

OK, I'll accept that you intentionally plugged that Trump lingo in there.  I'm not mad, in fact I hardly ever get mad with anything related to 94 (exception being lag).  Frustrated, disillusioned, yes, but angry, rarely.  That's your turf.  Also, I don't bring what happens in league games into these discussions.  I respect all opponents and keep the worlds separate.  These are strong differences we have with how the site and leagues should be, mixed with some barbs related to behavior.  

I know people have grown tired and annoyed by me and Plab.  I get it, believe me.  But we speak up because we care about this game and love it.  You think it's just us wanting to troll or whine, but it all stems from frustration of not seeing what we deem to be progress.  Maybe you haven't noticed, but both of us can be added to the list of those who are losing interest and have been for a while.  For the exact reasons we've been b*tching about.  We're trying our best to keep ourselves here but it's a losing battle it seems.

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10 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

TBH I think a lot of the reason for the lost interest in 94 is the game is getting older, and less people are interested as they get older, and younger guys for the most part don't want to play an old Genesis, or Super Nintendo game with players they never heard of.

The game is 20+ years old. The oldschool guys who played it in the 90's are getting older, but the game is still great and the controls are simple and what you can do with those simple controls is amazing especially in the Gens version. It's very addictive once you're drawn in to it and get the hang of it. The game will keep it's popularity whether or not community X exists or not. We thought our community in the Finland was the only one playing this and all the sudden there was interest in another forum for it and they kicked up a 20+ player league in a modified rom that they played for a couple of seasons. Things bloom and gloom, that is life. Retro gaming is also a thing nowadays and the live events and what Mikey has been doing has shown that the game is still reviewed as great. Potential is huge. Does this community capitalize on that is another question. This community is just a part of the NHL94 world and NHL94 does not need this to be reviewed as great and popular.
 

10 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Also another thing that I think is HUGE is the emulator, Kaillera, Hamachi for Genesis sucks balls, and the SNES version of the game sucks balls.


I have tried to also bring up the talk about about the rerecording version of the game that offers lag compensation. That option has a clear cut difference for the response the game has online. I have also tried to bring up talk about the audiovisual settings affecting online response, going from the lightest to heaviest and asking response for that. It's been confirmed as well. There just has been no interest in looking in to that more and what the reason behind it might be. At best we could have a much better experience online as well, but I think it's already great. I know it requires effort and perhaps some of the pro:s at programming level to take a look in to that once they have experienced it and taken interest in the case as well. Kaillera P2P is just fine, it's gens that adds to a bulky feel of online gaming sometimes and that we can look in to or not, up to us.

Kega would offer a more closer experience to real gaming in how it emulates the game, but if I'm correct it is much worse online over long distances and it doesn't have the netplaysave as of current that works with the nhl94online.com uploads so it would require tons of work?

 

10 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

I've been here playing since fall 2014, and the same elite guys are elite, literally in the last 2 years not one person who wasn't already here has even challenged for an A title, or an elite league like GDL title, so this tells me there just isn't enough interest in this game anymore, or you would be getting gamers coming in, and quickly challenging, and that is not the case

It seems the only new guy who has made that jump was Plabax just around that time or a notch before. The learning curve is quite steep in this game and majority of the A guys are oldschoolers. There has been a big rise in the level of B talent in the past year. What makes this game great is the fundamentals behind it however and that must be spot on for the top level, just look at Princes vs Paupers currently the A guys are still doing well, even surprisingly well.

True gamers are interested in prizes. Get some prizes going on and optimatization for the sites for good marketing and you might get some new blood to top level as well eventually, some of them are always on the look for easy money or prizes. Especially if a huge live tournament comes to existence from a yearly base now on it would be easy to build upon.

Whatever this online community does will reflect on the future of it. It can diminish so only Classic leagues are being run by the current administrators (even that would be totally cool) or it can thrive if people put the positive mind to it and the effort, if there is enough will. Up to us. Nothing is to say that a new core group would not pick things up on a later date should this core wither down, the framework is there to improve and this is one of the most classic sports game of all time.

Edited by Depch

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3 hours ago, Uncle Seth said:

I take issue with this "elitist" term you and Depch have placed on our vision of what a league should be.  Neither of us have ever been against lower level players in the league.  If elite to you means we want strict enforcement of clearly laid out rules, then yeah, you could call us that.  Not wanting slackers and those with crappy connections, that's elitist?

I brought up the term to elitist approach from my past experiences and how I see similarities here with the current situation. What Plablegs has done is great, it was greatly needed to work as a cultural change towards slacking and while in general I would have given Ice & Chef a chance to get their games in the next day, it probably was required to boot to have that sensation that the league has not failed to provide on those strict rules. This league or a league of such type has a place for the hardcore gamers, it must exist to keep the core happy. Such a fast pace and such strict rules cannot however be placed upon the whole community or the pool of players will become very short and the rules on micro scheduling will not be able to save the community in the long run.

Just don't attack other leagues leagues like they are taking something away from you, there must be room for many kinds of leagues and for those as well who need a bit more flexibility in a less paced league, slack rules can still be implemented and no one wants to go back to how things were. That the other leagues don't use Plablegs rules does not mean it doesn't provide a cultural change to things. Attacking other leagues if they don't follow your mean is elitistic and that cuts you off from the rest very rapidly. Players still have the ability to choose what leagues they want to play in.

I think this is just a misunderstanding here, both want the same thing, but there is just a failure in communication. People care about the community so it also gets emotional forcing your own viewpoints of things.

I tried to also bring up the discussion of a macro schduling for the leagues on this community and what we could afford to play without players getting overcommited and drained up with the current player pool. What Plablegs changes is the micro schedules to be able to the keep macro rolling properly. It's just a small part of the solution to problems, but a good place to start. We still have to create more structure overall to the site leagues and to make the site more efficient, appealing, better marketed to make the community grow. We have had good ideas in the thread.

What Plablegs has done is only part of the solution. It's not the whole solution, but an important part of it.

Edited by Depch
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