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CoachMac

HDMI TV's

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What are the best ways to make the Original Genesis Look, Play, and Sound Good on HDMI TV's?

Is it even possible?

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I play on an HDTV.  But it is a plasma with no (or very little) lag.  I think LED TVs will have lag. 

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All modern TVs will have some lag because of the internal upscaling done by the TV to take the 240p video signal coming from the console and make it displayable on a 1080p display. Some will have more than others. It shouldn't be very noticeable though. The problem is the upscaling makes it look like crap. Some TVs will treat the video signal better than others as well.

The Framemeister is designed specifically to upscale 240p and 480i signals. So it does a better job than a TV would. It upscales it to 720p or 1080i/p and connects to the TV via HDMI. This way the TV does not have to do anything with it except display it. Unfortunately, the Framemeister is out of production now. There may be other options.

The best signal output from ANY console would be in RGB. The framemeister can take RGB input (as well as regular A/V). Pretty much the only option for the best look. There are also some CRTs that will take RGB input. Most systems can output RGB natively (no mods needed, just the right cable). Genesis and most SNES versions do. Once you see a system in RGB video, you will wonder how you ever played it any other way. 

The reason why RGB is the best is because it is the base of any video signal.

For example:

You pop in a NHL'94 cartridge into your Genesis. The Genesis reads the cartridge and says "Hey, I need to display the color of the ice. The ROM inside the cartridge tells me the ice is blueish." Actually it has a value in hex, which is the RGB value (Red, Blue, Green). So it outputs that exact color of the ice at that exact moment it needs to show it on the screen. That output then goes to a video chip inside the Genesis. The video chip says "OK, I need to convert this to some different types of video output signals". So it converts the color to different types of signals, and sends it to the connector on the back of the Genesis. You plug in a A/V cable (yellow for video, red/white for audio - this is called composite video). Then plug the other end into the TV. The TV takes that signal, sends it to a video chip and says "Hey, this video signal is too confusing to me. Video chip, can you convert this to something I know?". The video chip converts it back to RGB, and the TV understands the values and displays it. With both conversions, you are losing data. When you use the RGB output from the console, no conversion is taking place on either side (console or TV). So the signal is as pure and the color is as pure as it can be.

 

RGB was very big in Europe. It never took off here in the states, which is why TVs here do not have RGB inputs. If you ever see a SCART input on a TV, this uses RGB.

 

http://retrorgb.com - check this website out for comparison screenshots. It can also answer many of your questions.

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The link Raph posted is where I got mine. That is a good price, 3 years ago I paid $500.

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28 minutes ago, aqualizard said:

I play on an HDTV.  But it is a plasma with no (or very little) lag.  I think LED TVs will have lag. 

You talking emulator or console?

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I was talking emulator? Did I get it wrong?  (Now I see Coach likely meant the console.  Oops.)

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10 hours ago, slapshot67 said:

Maybe these cables can work, I would like to get one, but they always sell out fast.

http://www.hdretrovision.com

Just noticed a recent update on this site for buyers in Canada. Looks like the cables are in stock and available from a Canadian distributor (no exchange, or duties).

https://retrostuff.ca/

Edited by jer_33

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It took my 3 months but I finally did it today.

I got the Framemeister and the needed cables!!!:big_smile:

Thanks to @chaos for his guidance.

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2 minutes ago, CoachMac said:

It took my 3 months but I finally did it today.

I got the Framemeister and the needed cables!!!:big_smile:

Thanks to @chaos for his guidance.

Ooooh, nice dude!  

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2 hours ago, kingraph said:

Ooooh, nice dude!  

When are you coming over to play?:big_smile:

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7 minutes ago, CoachMac said:

When are you coming over to play?:big_smile:

Haha, if only weren't on the opposite sides of the country!

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Blown away!!!

Ordered Monday and it arrived today!  from Japan.  I got it in less than 48 hours.

Now I just need the cable I ordered, that will probably be 2 weeks.

https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit-eur-scart-adapter

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I ended up with an OSSC, which is a line doubler.  Pros, no lag from the scaler at all, not even 1 frame and it only costs about $200.  Cons, it looks like a homebrew project because it is, and it's really finicky with capture cards.

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I tried the Framemeister.

Then resold it on ebay.

I tried the new Mini Gens HD from Gamerz Tec.

Keep your CRT and Original Gens, there really is nothing comparable!
Original Equipment is far and away the best!
:big_smile:

The next best thing is playing on Kega Fusion and then playing on Gens!

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47 minutes ago, CoachMac said:

I tried the Framemeister.

Then resold it on ebay.

I tried the new Mini Gens HD from Gamerz Tec.

Keep your CRT and Original Gens, there really is nothing comparable!
Original Equipment is far and away the best!
:big_smile:

The next best thing is playing on Kega Fusion and then playing on Gens!

What particular complaints did you have about the Framemeister and the Mini Gens HD?

If it's lag.. that could actually be a setting on your TV. New TVs with motion smoothing (like 120Hz mode) will add delay, but you can usually disable it -- my TV has a Game Mode that I can enable per-input (e.g., on HDMI input #2).

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43 minutes ago, smozoma said:

What particular complaints did you have about the Framemeister and the Mini Gens HD?

If it's lag.. that could actually be a setting on your TV. New TVs with motion smoothing (like 120Hz mode) will add delay, but you can usually disable it -- my TV has a Game Mode that I can enable per-input (e.g., on HDMI input #2).

#1 Lag.

#2 It just doesn't look quite right.  I can't explain it but almost like people who get botox.
Ya the wrinkles are gone, but it doesn't look right.

Not the TV I had it set to Game Mode and I tried it at a Retro game store in town where the guy helped me.

Again just my opinion, both are decent products, but i would be disappointed to play Live on either of these.

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46 minutes ago, CoachMac said:

#1 Lag.

#2 It just doesn't look quite right.  I can't explain it but almost like people who get botox.
Ya the wrinkles are gone, but it doesn't look right.

Not the TV I had it set to Game Mode and I tried it at a Retro game store in town where the guy helped me.

Again just my opinion, both are decent products, but i would be disappointed to play Live on either of these.

Thanks, good to get experiences/opinions on these

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7 hours ago, CoachMac said:

#1 Lag.

#2 It just doesn't look quite right.  I can't explain it but almost like people who get botox.
Ya the wrinkles are gone, but it doesn't look right.

Not the TV I had it set to Game Mode and I tried it at a Retro game store in town where the guy helped me.

Again just my opinion, both are decent products, but i would be disappointed to play Live on either of these.

 

I haven't noticed any lag. But every TV and every person is different. I'll have to do some more testing, I haven't played many sports games on it. Hopefully you were able to get most of your money back. Sorry bud.

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If you really want a nice CRT, look for Sony PVM series. I was lucky to find one in a lab I was working in where the guy was getting rid of it. Paid $70 for shipping. They are $$$ but they will display RGB and are "lag-free". They are also pretty heavy. They are professional CRTs, mostly used in video editing and hospitals. Composite on it even looks great.  

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54 minutes ago, chaos said:

 

I haven't noticed any lag. But every TV and every person is different. I'll have to do some more testing, I haven't played many sports games on it. Hopefully you were able to get most of your money back. Sorry bud.

No big deal, I took a small loss.
It was well worth it to not wonder anymore!:big_smile:

I really appreciate your help and guidance.

50 minutes ago, chaos said:

If you really want a nice CRT, look for Sony PVM series. I was lucky to find one in a lab I was working in where the guy was getting rid of it. Paid $70 for shipping. They are $$$ but they will display RGB and are "lag-free". They are also pretty heavy. They are professional CRTs, mostly used in video editing and hospitals. Composite on it even looks great.  

Yes!  I have had my eye on a few of these on ebay.
I am keeping that RGB cord, I bought for when i find one of these.

I also have noticed a huge difference in CRT's.
I have 4, but one is significantly better than the other 3.

I am keeping the Mini Gens HD, just in case.

But I think for emulation a lap top and Kega then gens are better.

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10 minutes ago, CoachMac said:

No big deal, I took a small loss.
It was well worth it to not wonder anymore!:big_smile:

I really appreciate your help and guidance.

Yes!  I have had my eye on a few of these on ebay.
I am keeping that RGB cord, I bought for when i find one of these.

I also have noticed a huge difference in CRT's.
I have 4, but one is significantly better than the other 3.

I am keeping the Mini Gens HD, just in case.

But I think for emulation a lap top and Kega then gens are better.

 

@CoachMac    Yes, keep the cable. As far as the Sony PVMs, just be careful buying one on eBay. They are heavy and if they aren't packed right, it's not making it to you in one piece. There are state public auctions that go on that usually have these monitors that go for cheap. It's all done online, you bid like eBay and if you win you go pick it up.  

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-BVM-1315-Monitor-/252883026915  - I found this one on eBay. The BVM monitors are the next step up from PVM. This one is only 13" and it's located in Sparks, NV. No speakers though, you'd have to use some cheap computer speakers.

You can use this adapter to try it out with just the Genesis AV cables. - https://www.amazon.com/Sienoc-Male-Female-Adapter-Connector/dp/B00KX17NGU/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YVBQ4Y5AHEQRRG6G0BWN . See if he would let you test it out.

If you like it, I'd offer the guy $150 and see if he takes it. He wouldn't have to pay eBay fees if he sold it to you locally. That's not a bad deal for that monitor.

 

You will need a SCART to BNC cable to use your RGB cable for any of these monitors. https://www.ebay.com/i/202264834157?chn=ps&dispItem=1

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These do output a decent composite signal, and are extremely small, and the included controllers are as good as any 3rd party Genesis controller I've used.  I brought one to the Tecmo tournament in Chicago, and it worked great for some Genesis pick up games while we waited for a game to stream.

Crt is best,  but if your hotel has an HDTV, upscaling composite or using the built in HDMI scaler is going to have a similar lag experience, the difference being that the HDMI will look better.

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