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SNES Player Attribute Survey

34 posts in this topic

Thanks to the recent launch of the SNES Dynasty league and my own dabblings in SNES classic, I've been curious how SNES players value player attributes. I originally did this for GENS, and all of my descriptions are from that same survey...I don't think the SNES version is different. I'm hoping to hear from some of the more experienced SNES players, but any SNES player is free to chime in! :)

Your time is greatly appreciated and I'll share the results afterwards. I'll be creating a new "overall" formula based on the feedback I receive.

I think of the scale this way (a guideline):

5 -- Very valuable. An attribute that I look for in a player every time.
4 -- Valuable. I look at this each time, but not quite as important as 5
3 -- If all else equal, I look at this attribute as a deciding factor.
2 -- A nice "to have", but will sacrifice for other attributes
1 -- Not important -- I rarely pay attention to this


A quick reference on attributes, as I understand them (thanks AILD, Smozoma, BJTaylor04):

Weight - Determines checking ability/resistance and acceleration (higher weight slows down acceleration)
Agility - How quickly a player stops and turns, deking ability
Speed - How quickly a player achieves top speed (acceleration)
Shot Power - Self explanatory
Shot Accuracy - Self explanatory
Stick Handling - Ability to receive pass, hold onto puck when poked/held
Pass Accuracy - Self explanatory
Off Awareness - Thought to give AI better positioning for one-timers, perhaps passing?
Def Awareness - AI players close down to their own net
Checking - How often AI checks


You can copy/paste from my first response below. Again, I appreciate your feedback.

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Forwards

Weight - 3

Agility - 5
Speed - 4
Shot Power - 3
Shot Accuracy - 4
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 2
Def Awareness - 1
Checking - 1

Defensemen

Weight - 5
Agility - 5
Speed - 3
Shot Power - 2
Shot Accuracy - 2
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 1
Def Awareness - 4
Checking - 1

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Forwards

Weight - 2

Agility - 5
Speed - 5
Shot Power - 5
Shot Accuracy - 5
Stick Handling - 5
Pass Accuracy - 5
Off Awareness - 3
Def Awareness - 1
Checking - 2

Defensemen

Weight - 5
Agility - 5
Speed - 5
Shot Power - 2
Shot Accuracy - 2
Stick Handling - 4
Pass Accuracy - 5
Off Awareness - 2
Def Awareness - 5
Checking - 3

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Edited Feb. 8, 2017!

Forwards
Weight - 4

Agility - 4
Speed - 5
Shot Power - 5
Shot Accuracy - 4
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 2
Def Awareness - 1
Checking - 2

Defensemen
Weight - 5
Agility - 4
Speed - 4
Shot Power - 3
Shot Accuracy - 2
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 1
Def Awareness - 3
Checking - 3

Edited by Bob Kudelski

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Forwards

Shot Accuracy - 5

Speed - 4

Agility - 4

Endurance - 4

Stick Handling - 3

Pass Accuracy - 3

Shot Power - 3

Offense - 2

Weight - 2

Checking - 2

Defense - 1

Defensemen

Speed - 4

Pass Accuracy - 4

Shot Accuracy - 4

Shot Power - 4

Endurance - 4

Agility - 3

Weight - 3

Stick Handling - 3

Checking - 3

Defense - 2

Offense - 2

Goaltenders

Agility - 4

Puck Control - 4

Left Glove - 4

Right Glove - 4

Right Stick - 3

Left Stick - 3

Weight - 2

Defense - 1

Edited by trudatman

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I think a lot of this depends on who I am playing and how well I know the team.

If I'm playing a heavy team, I'd rather take some chubbiness over speed/agility/shot power. If I'm playing a finesse team, I prefer heavy D with fast/agile F. The goalie I don't care about at all. Any of them can be scored on with the same basic shots, you just have to hold your shots a bit with some.

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I think a lot of this depends on who I am playing and how well I know the team.

If I'm playing a heavy team, I'd rather take some chubbiness over speed/agility/shot power. If I'm playing a finesse team, I prefer heavy D with fast/agile F. The goalie I don't care about at all. Any of them can be scored on with the same basic shots, you just have to hold your shots a bit with some.

But say you're drafting a team and you don't know who you'll be playing against...

(Also, the poll should probably ask the respondents to indicate if they are thinking of line changes on or off, in case that makes a difference!)

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Assuming a draft, here is my weighting:

Forwards

Weight - 2

Agility - 5
Speed - 5
Shot Power - 3
Shot Accuracy - 3
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 2
Def Awareness - 1
Checking - 1

Defensemen

Weight - 4
Agility - 3
Speed - 2
Shot Power - 1
Shot Accuracy - 1
Stick Handling - 4
Pass Accuracy - 4
Off Awareness - 1
Def Awareness - 4
Checking - 3

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But say you're drafting a team and you don't know who you'll be playing against...

(Also, the poll should probably ask the respondents to indicate if they are thinking of line changes on or off, in case that makes a difference!)

No line changes!

This has been great so far...some really interesting insights, with respect to how this differs from GENS in particular. Keep 'em coming!

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Forwards


Weight - 3

Agility - 3
Speed - 5
Shot Power - 5
Shot Accuracy - 5
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 2
Def Awareness - 1
Checking - 1

Defensemen


Weight - 3
Agility - 3
Speed - 2
Shot Power - 1
Shot Accuracy - 1
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 1
Def Awareness - 4
Checking - 1

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always with line changes. I should have included endurance... fours for offense and defense. I went back and added those key ratings to my lists and put them all in order of importance.

Edited by trudatman

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Does the checking rating really not matter much at all? It's all about weight?

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Does the checking rating really not matter much at all? It's all about weight?

Checking is how often the AI checks, but has no impact on checking ability. That's been proven (by smozoma) for GENS, and is probably the same for SNES.

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Forwards


Weight - 4

Agility - 3
Speed - 4
Shot Power - 3
Shot Accuracy - 5
Stick Handling - 4
Pass Accuracy - 1
Off Awareness - 3
Def Awareness - 3
Checking - 3

Defensemen

Weight - 5
Agility - 3
Speed - 4
Shot Power - 2
Shot Accuracy - 2
Stick Handling - 4
Pass Accuracy - 2
Off Awareness - 2
Def Awareness - 3
Checking - 5

Edited by Oilers442

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Results and observations:

Overall, the SNES folks seem to not be as focused on individual player attributes as much as the GENS folks. I was a little surprised about this coming from the GENS world, but I realized there's a few reasons for this. First, the existence of the weight bug in GENS created a hyper focus on weight and its effect on checking. The bug does not exist in the SNES version. As such, the starting lineups in SNES are pretty much okay, while Genesis requires adjustments on just about every team to compensate for the bug. Finally, there haven't been as many draft leagues in SNES as compared to GENS. The SDL (SNES Draft League) lasted two seasons. Interestingly, the two champions were Bok and Houly, both Genesis players. It could be coincidence, but I believe their knowledge of player attributes helped! So really, there hasn't been as much of a NEED to focus on attributes in SNES as GENS. Finally, the styles of the games are different, and that shows through the attribute surveys.

Forwards

Just like GENS, Speed is valued the most at an average of 4.63! Nobody rated it lower than a 4, and this was a clear winner. Nothing surprising here. Coming in at #2 is Shot Accuracy, at an average of 4.50, followed by Agility at 4.13. Those 3 attributes were the only ones that averaged over a 4. Interestingly, the #2 and #3 attributes are not the same as GENS and I believe these results highlight the differences between the two systems.

1. SNES Speed (4.63) / GENS Speed (4.63)

2. SNES Shot Accuracy (4.50) / GENS Weight (4.38)

3. SNES Agility (4.13) / GENS Shot Power (4.25)

As I mentioned above, weight is a major factor in GENS, mainly due to the weight bug. Checking in SNES is generally easier, and leads to a "checkfest". It's just not a focus in SNES. Shot accuracy is very important. One-timers and close-in dekes are your primary weapons, so you want to limit your post hitting. While shot accuracy is somewhat important in GENS (3.63), Shot Power is more important because it directly impacts your slapshot succes. A rating of 4 and above and you will have to respect the slapshot from the top of the circle as a carefully placed slapper will beat most goalies. You need to switch to manual goalie. This is not the case in SNES, where a slapshot is not a good way to score. Shot power is just not as needed and the "power" of a shot is just not as drastic as GENS. Finally, Agility in SNES (3.25 in GENS) more valued, again because the increase of dangling in the corners and close to the goalie to squeeze in those dekes. You can't value EVERY attribute highly, and while agility is important in GENS, it just falls down the list.

Again, I think this quick survey on what we value in player attributes shows how different the same game is played on two systems as two of the top 3 attributes on each system are valued differently.

Defensemen

Just like GENS, Weight (4.38) was the most valued attribute for Defensemen and the only one to score above a 4. GENS was a whopping 5, meaning EVERYONE voted 5. Agility follows at 3.75, with Speed and Defensive Awareness tied for 3rd at 3.63. That was a little surprising and I intuitively believe people would pick a faster defensemen rather than a high awareness defensemen, but this could be my own bias. I have always found the defensive AI for SNES to be terrible.

Compared to GENS, there was nothing really surprising, and it basically echoed the differences in Forwards, but to smaller extent. Defensive Awareness was 2nd for GENS at 3.88 and Speed was 3rd at 3.75. Shot power was rated higher in GENS (2.88 vs 2.25) and Agility lower (3.13 vs 3.75), with the reasons likely as explained above.

1. SNES Weight (4.38) / GENS Weight (5.00)

2. SNES Agility (3.75) / GENS Defensive Awareness (3.88)

3. SNES Speed and Defensive Awareness (3.63) / GENS Speed (3.75)

At the end of the day, both system styles seem to want a d-man who can stay back, stay in position and clobber forwards who get close.

While everyone has their own unique style and playing methods, I found this to be interesting and accurate to my own experiences playing both systems. Thoughts, comments always appreciated!

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I 100% agree that SNES players don't even KNOW half the attributes. They KNOW all the players and who they do good with.

In Gens, both Klima & Turgeon just have a way to slide in front of the net almost perfectly 4-5 times a game with a good player, and play several skill levels ahead of their appeared rating. I think this type of "analysis" is more the norm for SNES players, who know which guys fit their systems, and like you highlighted, you can play without noticing a big difference on a few subs.

In the GENS game, if you don't sub & take Philly, you just get CRUSHED. If you sub all the correct light weight guys, you are going to give everyone a battle.

So, to me, I've noticed that most guys sub in one guy who can either shoot & is heavy or one speed guy into a lineup, and then play, when doing Classic for SNES. No major lineup overhauls.

During the recent Puck Dynasty Auction for SNES, I had the feeling guys didn't even know what attributes they should be trying to buy, so they were just bidding on the names they knew.

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I think weight, agility & then speed still play the biggest roles in SNES. I'm new to SNES, and still kind of suck, imo, but regularly beat or play with the other teams because my team in Puck Dynasty is BIG, FAST & AGILE. (And by beat, I mean even win 1 out of 4, and play with, I mean lose 4-3, 6-5 type thing against opponents whom in Classic I'd lose 8-2 all day).

Shot accuracy for a scoring center with a team that knows how to use it, or good shot power on a scoring defenseman can lead to an extra goal or two a game, but if rating attributes for each player overall, I still feel those are the ones that matter.

Oh, and puck control gets a low rating unless you've tried to take someone without it through a zone in a game where half the computer dudes are always trying to hold you!

Edited by Brutus

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I think a great thing to do with this set of data (after more folks contribute) would be to run numbers to rate/rank the original game's players. call it a general preference rating or something. we haven't been including pass/shot bias. are we forgetting anything else? handedness....

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I think a great thing to do with this set of data (after more folks contribute) would be to run numbers to rate/rank the original game's players. call it a general preference rating or something. we haven't been including pass/shot bias. are we forgetting anything else? handedness....

I'll put it together and share...probably later tonight when I get back to my laptop.

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that would be sweet, duder. you may wish to wait for more responses, though. it seems to me that this would be a complex project, but well worth it for simple drafting and line setting analysis.

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Here are the player ratings based on the survey averages. If anyone wants to add to the survey, go ahead and I'll incorporate your results. I have a google doc that is pretty automated, so it doesn't take a lot of effort.

SNES NHL'94 Player Ratings

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AWESOME! thank you! you have some guys twice. it would be nice to have it broken down by team, too. thanks again for you efforts.

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I couldn't find Reggie "TNS" Savage.

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My GENS roots are showing! I used a GENS player extract...thought I nabbed the doubles.

Team is easy to add, though I'll need a list of which teams teams the double players are on....beezer on FLA, Hynes on ??, etc

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do they not have Reggie Savage on the Genesis? I still can't figure out why guys are on two teams... how hard was it to remove them? the Genesis version had too many problems upon release.

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I Think the jets are missing.

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and Washington.

Edited by trudatman

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Alright, I scrubbed this a bit. No duplicates and I added in the team for reference.

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And here's a link to a google doc where you can input your own attribute values to get your own custom ratings. Just input your values in the green cells (whatever you want them to be) and the player pivot will update automatically. There's an orange cell that you can copy/paste to scale everything back to 100 for the top player if you wish.

I suggest making a copy for yourself so people don't overwrite...it's open for everyone to use: NHL'94 Player Rating Sheet

An insane amount of credit to smozoma, whose blitz player sheet and ratings formula was the basis for this file!!!

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