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Bob Kudelski

Difficulty Accepting a Pass

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My wingers have lots of trouble accepting a pass in certain games. I've had games where probably 50% or more of my lead passes to the wingers are bobbled and bounce right off of them. It seems to happen more frequently when I'm the visiting team.

My team, the Ottawa Civics, replaced the SJ Sharks in the ROM, but the Sharks supposedly have a "high" "road ice advantage". Does that mean anything?

The player bobbling the puck is often Trevor Linden, but he has a 65 stickhandling rating, same as all my other starters.

Does it have to do with the passing rating of the passer, the stickhandling rating of the target player?

Or does it have to do with the hot-cold streaks?

Or is it only the position of the target player and their sticks?

Or a combination of all of these things?

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SNES passing is a little bit different than Genesis passing, most notably in that passes almost always appear to be accurately at a player. (not always the one you want, but at somebody.) the real catch is if it is handled upon receipt. you'd think that the receiver's handling would be the key, but I think the passing rating of the passing player is the big factor you are noticing here. tweak that Linden and run some tests. give him 25 passing and 100 stick handling. then give him 100 passing and 25 stick handling. try both of those with the rest of the team reversed. I'm no expert on this, but I don't think you are going to get many responses form other members. I hope you do, though, because this is something we should understand further.

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It happens to me very often in gens games. And not only with one team. I launch a pass and it's rebounding on the guy who have to catch it!!! It drives me crazy!!! I think it's more the position of the guys who receive the pass than other thing but that's a very good questiom!!!

If you look at the game stats,passing is always close to 50% not much more and for all players i mean so really don't know.

But if someone knows something on that it would be pretty cool to share it!

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I noticed this a lot in SNES over GENs. In gens, switching to the player and hitting B often enables you to receive the pass.

For me, it's one of my frustrations I had thought was exclusive to me, so I hadn't posted (other teams seem to move the puck well against me, but maybe they have already learned where to not pass by this time in their NHL94 experience).

In GENS, there is a definite "receiver" ability for the forward, and I don't associate it with the guy making the pass (the pass rating always seemed to play a role inside the zone when making one timer passes, etc), and the bad passers seem to mess that up more than they connect.

But I assumed STICKHANDLING to be the attribute that determined if a guy caught the pass or not.

HOWEVER, in SNES, I found all of them miss this pass for me.

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I noticed this a lot in SNES over GENs. In gens, switching to the player and hitting B often enables you to receive the pass.

For me, it's one of my frustrations I had thought was exclusive to me, so I hadn't posted (other teams seem to move the puck well against me, but maybe they have already learned where to not pass by this time in their NHL94 experience).

In GENS, there is a definite "receiver" ability for the forward, and I don't associate it with the guy making the pass (the pass rating always seemed to play a role inside the zone when making one timer passes, etc), and the bad passers seem to mess that up more than they connect.

But I assumed STICKHANDLING to be the attribute that determined if a guy caught the pass or not.

HOWEVER, in SNES, I found all of them miss this pass for me.

Interesting.. I have never noticed this.

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I think it's a combination of those 3 things you said bob. Pass rating of the passer is all that matters attribute wise. Hot and cold streaks don't matter as much as home/away advantage. Just momentum in general makes this stuff wacky, even in roms where home/away advantage is nullified there are still games where 90% of the bounces don't go your way (or the other way around). Lastly though, your third point about the position of the receiver. This is important I think. After playing enough you realize that it's a bad idea to pass in some situations because they almost always fail for whatever reason. Like passing to a guy who is 1 foot away from you seems to have less average success than passing to a guy who is a little more spaced out. Just like how passing to a guy from behind him causes the puck to often bounce off the back of his skates.

This stuff is really tricky, passing is one of the worst parts of my game by far.

Knowing that I am a bad passer, take what I just said with a grain of salt lol. This is just what I think, I don't really know anything though

EDIT: Seth told me before the same thing Brutus said a few posts above. About pressing B as the pass receiver causes them to receive the puck better. I messed around with this one time and could never get it to work. To me this sounds like crazy talk, but is this a legit thing?

Edited by TomKabs93

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This happens in gens quite often as well. I'm not sure it has anything to do with any player skills, it has happened to stick 5 & pass 5 players as well receiving the puck as well as pass 5 guy passing it. Happens usually when the puck hits the back of your skates, but it is sometimes wacky like TK said, momentum? There are videos in spring classic finals this year where this happened a few times, could find more as well if one just goes through them. It might be just poor passing by yourself and you might want to aim the trajectory more for the stick instead of just towards the player as a whole or something like that .. wacky stuff I never usually pay attention to player position.

Below a few examples from the finals where this happens:

https://youtu.be/-nmeNRTy7ts?t=234

https://youtu.be/uGZriaUpKLs?t=311

https://youtu.be/3TyfEeSeY0I?t=109 (first by swos, a little later by me)

Edited by Depch

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Good discussion! Thanks for contributing.

I agree it usually happens when passing from behind the receiver. But there are some games where all of these passes from behind are received seamlessly, and others where every single one is booted. It seems like there is some factor at play, whether it's a momentum, home/away, hot/cold thing. I don't know.

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My two cents on Genesis -- I think switching to the player receiving the pass only helps in that you can position him at a better angle. If you keep a player with his skates to the back of the puck, that will still result in a bad pass, but if you are able to angle him a little bit, your success rate goes up. You learn this a lot playing 2on2 as you are always in control of the player receiving, and learning how to angle yourself to best receive the puck is key.

Having said all that, when the game wants to screw you (momentum), it doesn't seem like anything can help!

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Plabs, you rarely play anymore w/ guys like Bassen & Co, as your preferences are the good stick guys who also tend to be good passers. Are you saying you don't notice the puck off the ass pass? Or you don't notice any difference in who is receiving the pass as I did?

I used to play a lot w/ the good C checkers, as that went to my C whore personality :)

The 2v2 thread is where I read the comment originally about hitting B like a poke check to receive the puck better. I've found I don't have the same problems on GENS w/ it as I do on SNES, and I only play SNES Dynasty, so I have Mario, Selanne & Fedorov, all solid to great puck guys.

I doubt MOMENTUM has anything to do with it because then it would be lowering the rating of passing or stick handling to do so (high momentum raises all your players skills up), and you would notice it w/ crappy players more than w/ top tier players already, not only when momentum goes against you.

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I think if we used a group of forwards set to really low stick handling, and defenders with high pass ratings as one group, then took a sample with high stick handling forwards and high passer rating on defenders, and then a 3rd sample of low stick handling with low passer ratings as a test we could then get some more defined results as to what is what on this.

This test would need to be done on SNES & GENS.

I'll be free probably Friday late at night if no one gets to it before to test this out for both systems.

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Also to Raph's point on avoid the off the ass puck for GENS, I'd comment to my experience on SNES, where I find switching doesn't help as much like in GENS. I have to literally turn and face the wrong way and lose all momentum of the intended pass to avoid this outlet style pass from being a turn over.

I mention this only because I do believe Bob's original point is about SNES, and I wanted to highlight that I find the problem much more difficult on SNES than GENS to overcome, so if certain players are found to be less suspect to this bad pass combo, then they would have even more value in SNES, imo.

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Good thread topic.........

Here are my beliefs on this. They may sound crazy to some or make sense but here goes....

When I told TK it has a lot to do with pressing B before you accept the pass, what I meant (but maybe didn't make clear to him at the time) is that you want to get control (by pressing B obviously) of the player who the pass is going to before the pass reaches them. Because, the player about to receive the pass seems to have a much higher chance of successfully receiving it when you yourself have control of him than if he is controlled by the computer. I remember a long time ago I think it was Plabber that let me in on this. However, passing rating (of the passer) has to a lot successful completion of the pass NOT simply due to do the accuracy of the pass/passer..........but that pass rating also means how FAST the pass actually travels. Better the pass rating (of the passer), the FASTER the pass travels.....and better the chance of accepting it successfully.

And here's another thing I've noticed, if you try to make LONG a pass with a guy who has a poor pass rating (and by poor I mean 3 or less) the pass not only travels slower, but is much more likely to become airborne where it just floats the entire way. Make a long bombs away pass with Curt Giles, it happens a lot that he'll just "lob" the puck in the air, which seems to make it more difficult to accept (whether you press B before receiving it or not). Make a long bombs away pass with Paul Coffey, it will seem much faster and almost always be flat on the ice (not airborne). So, to summarize my rant, the guys with better pass ratings pass the puck faster AND are much less likely to "lob" it in the air. Both of which seem to make success rate of receiving it higher. On top of that, my earlier statement about "getting control of the passer (pressing B again after you pass it) leading to increased success rate.

And to mind-f*ck you even further, it seems you don't have to perform that said manuever nearly as often WHEN the pass is MADE by a player with a high pass rating. So, if you're making a pass with a lowly rated passer (3 or less) there's a greater chance of the pass not connecting (if you don't get control/press B before receiving it)...as it misses completely or bounces off an intended receiver's skate.

And then (YES THERE'S STILL MORE TO BOGGLE THE BRAIN) there's what Brutus said about STICKHANDLING possibly playing a role. This could very well be the case but it's hard to say for sure since the vast majority of players who have high pass ratings ALSO have high stickhandling ratings.... it's rare to have one without the other (Klima is an exeption I can think of off the bat). Personally, guys with poor passing as I define it (3 or below) really make passing a frustrating endeavor. Yes, Klima is an incredible skater and shooter, but try using him in a passing role and you will see how frustrating it can be using him to throwing medium to longer range passes.

From my own preferences the cutoff point for passing (and possibly stickhandling as it may relate to passing) seems to be 4. The rating of 4 (for passing) seems to be good enough to get the job done most of the time regardless of pass distance.

I know, I said earlier I was going to summarize this but you know me, I'm all over the place......so here's the advice part......

If you're using a crappy passer, don't try to make long passes, they'll be: lofty (sometimes) slower (always), easier to pick off, more likely to miss the target or hit the intended target in the skates. But if you have want that bugger with a crappy pass rating in your lineup, you better start working on pressing B after the puck has been sent (to get control of the receiver before the pass reaches him), to decrease the chance it hits him in the skates. Over time, guys who have value in other areas (be it lightweight, hard shot etc) but have a 3 or worse passing seem to reeeeally frustrate me to the point where I'm starting to feel 4 or higher is the minimum pass rating required if one wants to experience less frustration AND you're the type to pass frequently.

Keep in mind, all of these factors are MAGNIFIED the longer the pass is. With short passes you may not notice any of these problems. Sorry if this is painfully confusing to read.

Lastly, keep in mind, I'm writing this for the mass audience, many of you may be uttering to yourself "yeah I knew that Seth, it's basic knowledge" while others may be thinking "this is complete BS", "you're nuts", or even possibly......"wow, Seth you're a 94 genius" !

94 is complex for sure and some things are just so difficult to prove.....but this is my take on it based purely on experience.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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Seth you better watch those video clips, 4 pass fumbles and 3 were short distance, most of with guys with 4 in pass/stick.

-The first fumble is Roy passing relatively close to Schneider who is 4/4 and Roy has high awareness, who some have said to attribute to passing.

-Second is Desjardins with 4/4 passing to my center who fumbles the puck, quite a short range pass.

My experience says this might not be related to player attributes at all, it has happened to bad players, good players receiving it, good players passing it.

I'll throw out of the hat that there are few different fumbles. One is when it's hit to the back of the skates, it won't be received sometimes. The other is fast passes on short range, two separate cases. :)

Maybe it's all of it. Who knows. : p

Edited by Depch

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My two cents on Genesis -- I think switching to the player receiving the pass only helps in that you can position him at a better angle. If you keep a player with his skates to the back of the puck, that will still result in a bad pass, but if you are able to angle him a little bit, your success rate goes up. You learn this a lot playing 2on2 as you are always in control of the player receiving, and learning how to angle yourself to best receive the puck is key.

I think Raph nailed it here with what I try to explain in terms of "getting control" before the pass hits your stick.

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There are going to be a lot of responses to this thread, such a mysterious game this 94 is. What Depch said is very noticeable....fast passes(in the short range) being more susceptible to "back of the skate syndrome".

Please keep in mind, my long rant is opinion. I could be completely wrong on the reasons these things happen. I haven't watched any of those vids yet, will do so later, I'm out the door right now.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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Seth you better watch those video clips, 4 pass fumbles and 3 were short distance, most of with guys with 4 in pass/stick.

-The first fumble is Roy passing relatively close to Schneider who is 4/4 and Roy has high awareness, who some have said to attribute to passing.

-Second is Desjardins with 4/4 passing to my center who fumbles the puck, quite a short range pass.

My experience says this might not be related to player attributes at all, it has happened to bad players, good players receiving it, good players passing it.

I'll throw out of the hat that there are few different fumbles. One is when it's hit to the back of the skates, it won't be received sometimes. The other is fast passes on short range, two separate cases. :)

Maybe it's all of it. Who knows. : p

This is what I wrote earlier but I need to explain what I meant better..... "Keep in mind, all of these factors are MAGNIFIED the longer the pass is. With short passes you may not notice any of these problems." (what I said here came out COMPLETELY screwed up LOL).

What I failed to also state or clarify is that, with shorter passes, there's sometimes nothing you can do because you don't have the time to press B between the time you pass it and receive it. With long distances passes (from poor passers) for me personally, I feel like I should know enough to get control of that player beforehand to make the skater more likely to catch the pass. And with shorter passes, you don't have nearly as much time to "get control" of the pass receiver. So, that this strategy of "pressing B/getting control" before the guy accepts the pass is much more valuable/applicable with long range passes, which tend to be breakout passes (vertical) and have more of a chance of hitting the guy in the skates.

This is why breaking the puck out of the zone in general (via head-manning) can feel like a struggle when you have poor passing D ....OR you try to make passes with goalies in general (most can't pass for s**t) OOOOORRRRRRRRR.....you don't know about the "getting control and moving to accept it" strategy. In general, I feel, that if someone tries to pass to a guy who is close to them AND directly in front of them, there's a huge chance it will hit their skates. And if you send a long vertical pass with a poor passer AND you don't get control of the guy first to get into a better "accepting" position, you're going to have pucks bouncing off your skates a lot.

The whole "getting control" part seems to one of the biggest factors in accepting a longer pass successfully or a pass from a poor passer (WHEN THE PASS IS COMING FROM BEHIND and it's vertical). I don't seem to have the problems others do in catching passes and I believe it's because I do get control most of the time. For me, I get frustrated at the 3 passers, who throw such easily interceptible lobs from long distances, making breaking out of the zone more difficult. Or a crappy passer's centering pass from the corner to the slot will be so slow, by the time the puck gets to the intended one-timer target the goalie has already moved completely across the crease to be face (and save it). Of course goalie speed/agilty/weight plays into this ability but all things being equal, a faster pass means the goalie has less time to move over to get in position to face the shot..

TK said to me relatively recently, "you seem to break out of the zone so effortlessly most of the time, and don't have nearly as much difficulty that I do, which is why I prefer to just skate/deke my way up the ice with a skilled player". To which I'd responded, "I don't see you pressing B before you get it"....to which Raph clarified as having to "get control of the player about to get it AND turn him so that his back isn't facing the puck"

And I've noticed, on of the occasions when I do fumble receiving a pass (puck goes through me, right by me, or hits the skates), I realize it was because I forgot to get control first and get in position to accept it by turning to face it. The times it DOES frustrates me is when I forget to fix it during the game because I'm not aware I'm not "getting control of the recipient" Sometimes, it will be late night exis and I just don't have the mental focus go that extra step (or controlling before receiving then and turning turning to receive it) and will play sloppy, with lots of my passes hitting skates. I know WHY it's happening but too tired, unfocused or burnt out to care. But that's another reason for me this whole puck bouncing off the skates thing doesn't frustrate me, because I KNOW it's my fault most of the time (failing to get control, or it was too close of a vertical pass to provide TIME to take that extra step to get control to accept it).

*I've made things confusing for people by mixing two different things in the same paragraphs, passing the puck, and accepting the puck.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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It's possible that a good shooter makes a bad shot (see me w/ Mario any time I try to one time w/ him in SNES!!).

So, in theory, you can have a good passer make a bad pass just as well, which could possibly lead to all the confusion to which does/does not work.

If I clear enough time and interest, or someone else does, testing this in a similar manner Tru suggested, where we edit players to LOW passing, low stick , etc until we have enough samples to show what is definitive on this matter.

Simple speculation or observation of a few games won't really "clear" this up, and I do think it's worth pursuing.

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^agreed, this needs more more studying and experimenting. I think I'm all PASSed out right now with this topic. Let's talk CB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yeah I interpreted what you said wrong Seth at first. I thought you meant something crazy like pressing B for the pass, pressing B to get control of the receiver, and pressing B again to poke check (which somehow made them receive the pass better). So completely ignore me calling it crazy, I just can't read.

Good point about me not controlling the receiver. I only really take control of the receiver when I throw a total hail mary breakaway pass. When it comes to all of my other passes, for some reason I have always had the mindset that the pass has the best chance of being received well if I just let the receiver do his thing. A ridiculous way of thinking that I should really change. Passing is so inaccurate in 94 that it's best to take as much control as you can get.

It's possible that a good shooter makes a bad shot (see me w/ Mario any time I try to one time w/ him in SNES!!).

So, in theory, you can have a good passer make a bad pass just as well, which could possibly lead to all the confusion to which does/does not work.

This is fking lovely Brutus, honestly. This is what I have been thinking about when I try to tell Seth that hot/cold doesn't change the world. Mario can have a bad shot. Ciccarelli can have a bad shot. Housley can make a bad pass. Gretzky can be knocked down with a B check. High attributes just mean that there is a high probability of success for that part of the game. Low attributes means that there is a lower probability of success. Modano will miss the mark on 5 out of 10 shots. Cicc will miss the mark on 1 out of 10 shots. Selanne with his 4 stickhandling will shake 1 out of 10 B checks, while Gretzky will shake 6 out of 10 B checks.

Just random numbers up there, but it's just to make a point. That point being, just because you miss a shot, your shooter isn't necessarily cold that game. It's all probability based. Except stuff like Skating, there's no probability there.

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Yeah I interpreted what you said wrong Seth at first. I thought you meant something crazy like pressing B for the pass, pressing B to get control of the receiver, and pressing B again to poke check (which somehow made them receive the pass better). So completely ignore me calling it crazy, I just can't read.

Good point about me not controlling the receiver. I only really take control of the receiver when I throw a total hail mary breakaway pass. When it comes to all of my other passes, for some reason I have always had the mindset that the pass has the best chance of being received well if I just let the receiver do his thing. A ridiculous way of thinking that I should really change. Passing is so inaccurate in 94 that it's best to take as much control as you can get.

Nah not your fault for misunderstanding. It's hard to describe in words sometimes something that is done with a controller and implemented on a screen, plus I probably didn't elaborate much on it when we first discussed it. It was likely more of a "TK, just press B and you'll be alright" type of line on my part.

This is fking lovely Brutus, honestly. This is what I have been thinking about when I try to tell Seth that hot/cold doesn't change the world. Mario can have a bad shot. Ciccarelli can have a bad shot. Housley can make a bad pass. Gretzky can be knocked down with a B check. High attributes just mean that there is a high probability of success for that part of the game. Low attributes means that there is a lower probability of success. Modano will miss the mark on 5 out of 10 shots. Cicc will miss the mark on 1 out of 10 shots. Selanne with his 4 stickhandling will shake 1 out of 10 B checks, while Gretzky will shake 6 out of 10 B checks.

Just random numbers up there, but it's just to make a point. That point being, just because you miss a shot, your shooter isn't necessarily cold that game. It's all probability based. Except stuff like Skating, there's no probability there.

When I talk hot or cold, I don't mean one play in one game. I mean the effect of say an average 4 shot power shooter going down to (what looks like on the screen) a 3. It dramatically lessens that shooter's range the entire game, not just one play. Klima going from his average 3 passing to what looks like on the screen (speed-wise of the pass) as a 2 is just disgusting. Plab pointed out something a while ago that I never fully took stock in, until playing the static rom recently. He had said going from a 6 to a 5 in shot accuracy, passing, sth, shot power (and possibly other attributes) isn't as dramatic a loss as going down from 5 to 4. And even worse is 4 down to 3 and etc.

I practiced with my some players who I feel I know well (vs computer) ones that who average a 4 shot power and 5 accuracy, and IMO he's right. They can still rip them and score from almost as far as they would if they were rated "hot". But a cold say for example Kristich in other roms like Classic or GDL, well his shot is a joke. It has no power at all, and being that shooting is really the only reason to use Kristich, his ONLY strength is diminished so greatly he loses tons of value on the ice. Add to the fact that a cold Kristich also loses his 4 sth (drops lower being cold) and 4 passing (drops lower being cold) and AVERAGE 3 AGILITY (drops to what feels like a 2 when cold) and he goes from being a sniper to someone who has no business on the ice.

If you take someone like Mogilny, with 6 speed, 6 agil, (I forget his other attributes) and you get a cold Mogilny, he'll still be fast, agile, have a good shot, pass well etc. So guys who have attributes in the 3-4 range are more affected by a hot or cold rating in a given game than someone who has 5's and 6's in those same attributes.

I doubted Plab's claims about this a year or so ago, I shrugged it off. He was right. F*cking Plab delivers the inside info AGAIN. So it makes sense IMO that players with attributes in the 3-4 range are more affected.

I will never be convinced that hot/cold is an overrated thing. I'm kind of shocked more people don't see it. I think it's just me, Depch who are the hardcore believers in the fluctuating ratings factor.

My only "hope" is that more people will be in favor of static roms for whatever league it is (next GDL?). But I'm done debating it, I see it my way, others see it theirs.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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My bad passer reference has nothing to do w/ hot/cold though. It refers to guys trying to determine what causes the off the ass pass.

My thinking is a great shooter can have a bad shot or a great passer can make w bad pass.

What I'm getting at is it would seem in logic that a bad pass bounces off the ass easier & a good pass gets received.

Trying to determine if it was the passer or the receiver, some determined that the " occurrence" had nothing to do with either skills BECAUSE of observing this happen w/ talented guys & scrubs.

I contend that it would need careful examination w/ extremes on the traits of passing & stick handling over several attempts to really get a gauge.

Edited by Brutus

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Also, to Seth's hot/cold streaks, I agree that the lower skilled guys are effected more as being rendered useless is much worse than being rendered less dominant.

However, if your team is built around mogilny's dominance or hull's shot power, the loss of that dominance can still be as debilitating to team as one guy becoming an ornament for that game.

But because it does have such an effect I am in favor of removing it or playing w/ it's effects displayed accurately.

If a guy would de synch over it he would also de synch for other reasons when he was losing. Sooner rather than later you'd weed that guy out I'd hope.

Edited by Brutus

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My bad passer has nothing to do w/ hot/cold though. It refers to guys trying to did upset what causes the off the ass pass.

My thinking is a great shooter can have a bad pass or a great passer can make w bad pass.

What I'm getting at is it would seem in logic that a bad pass bounces off the ass easier & a good pass gets received.

Trying to determine if it was the passer or the receiver, some determined that the " occurrence" had nothing to do with either skills BECAUSE of observing this happen w/ talented guys & scrubs.

I contend that it would need careful examination w/ extremes on the traits of passing & stick handling over several attempts to really get a gauge.

Test the awarenesses as well. I think I have tried this with Larmer who has 6 def awa, so it's most likely not that, but I have not tried offensive awareness. Don't recall the 6 off awa guys fumbling it too much, then again I have not played with them that much as of late. It happens to high stickhandling guys, it happens to high pass rate guys from high pass rate guys. Just stating my experiences on the issue, it happens to quite often to me and it's been like that since '94. I hope someone gets some sense to it, because sometimes it's really annoying and can happen like 3 times a row. : P

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Never have I started a thread on any forum that has generated this much discussion. Thanks guys.

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TomKabs is actually wrong. It's not really probability in some cases.

I was never able to shoot like Brett Hull with Gretzky depsite taking a lot of shots. So it is not probability. Some times a player may shoot it slower but that is a bug in the game and it is not related to stats. If Lemieux has a bad shot, it is most likely because he is cold to the point where his rating is not high enough.

A 4 in stick handling does not mean shake off 1/10 checks. When a player 4 stick handle shakes off a check I am pretty sure they have a hot rating. For me it happens maybe 0.01% of the time.

I am pretty sure higher shot accuracy gives you more AIM. Players with high shot accuracy are able to pick spots that others can't.

Anyway... static ROMs 4 life!

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TomKabs is actually wrong. It's not really probability in some cases.

I was never able to shoot like Brett Hull with Gretzky depsite taking a lot of shots. So it is not probability. Some times a player may shoot it slower but that is a bug in the game and it is not related to stats. If Lemieux has a bad shot, it is most likely because he is cold to the point where his rating is not high enough.

A 4 in stick handling does not mean shake off 1/10 checks. When a player 4 stick handle shakes off a check I am pretty sure they have a hot rating. For me it happens maybe 0.01% of the time.

I am pretty sure higher shot accuracy gives you more AIM. Players with high shot accuracy are able to pick spots that others can't.

Anyway... static ROMs 4 life!

Yeah you're probably right, I said that I really have no clue, it's just my thoughts.

Static roms would definitely be best. I think there is enough talk as of late that a push for this change would be successful

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Static rom fever baby!!! 5 vocal proponents already (Me, Depch, Brutus, TK and P(labax)remium). I'm so excited I want to CB my monitor.

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Also, to Seth's hot/cold streaks, I agree that the lower skilled guys are effected more as being rendered useless is much worse than being rendered less dominant.

However, if your team is built around mogilny's dominance or hull's shot power, the loss of that dominance can still be as debilitating to team as one guy becoming an ornament for that game.

But because it does have such an effect I am in favor of removing it or playing w/ it's effects displayed accurately.

If a guy would de synch over it he would also de synch for other reasons when he was losing. Sooner rather than later you'd weed that guy out I'd hope.

Test the awarenesses as well. I think I have tried this with Larmer who has 6 def awa, so it's most likely not that, but I have not tried offensive awareness. Don't recall the 6 off awa guys fumbling it too much, then again I have not played with them that much as of late. It happens to high stickhandling guys, it happens to high pass rate guys from high pass rate guys. Just stating my experiences on the issue, it happens to quite often to me and it's been like that since '94. I hope someone gets some sense to it, because sometimes it's really annoying and can happen like 3 times a row. : P

A while back I had suggested that I would create a simulation rom where each team has the same ratings except for one attribute. I would then let the computer play against itself with two different teams to see what effect that attribute has. I ended up simming one game where the only difference was aggression, and forgot about it. I think that I'll get back to this little project of mine. It would be interesting to look at the passing statistics for a team with stickhandling=1 vs a team with stickhandling=6. Of course the computer plays quite differently than a human, but this might help sort some of this stuff out.

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please do that.

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