aqualizard

What makes a good checker?

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I know that weight figures heavily (no pun intended) in checking ability, and that (strangely) checking does not! (That is, Checking is actually how often a player will check when controlled by AI.) But weight is not the only stat that matters. Some guys, like Gretzky, are light, yet still don't easily send people to the ice like a Gilmour, Theo or Roenick, among others.

So what other attributes affect checking? Or is it something else? (Not sure what else besides stats it could be, but who knows?)

Edited by aqualizard

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It's weight. Gretzky and all the other players with 4 weight check the same.

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Aggressiveness and checking

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So Raph, you are with Plabax? The only ingredient in good checking is weight?

Because to me, Gilmour and Roenick -- same weight as Gretsky -- are waaaaay better at crushing guys than 99? (Although maybe because of other high attributes that 99 doesn't have, they are better at "lining up" checks, so it merely seems like they are better at actually checking?)

Thanks HABS, I am going to look into high aggressiveness combined with low weight to see if there is a checking correlation. (Again, Gretsky probably has a 0 aggressiveness, so it fits in this one instance, anyway.)

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I'm with Plabax on weight. Never heard of aggressiveness being a factor, and checking controls AI behavior.

However, I'm convinced a heavy guy CB check is more effective than lightweight check of the same relative weight difference.

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I'd say that speed has something to do with it, as in how fast you are going on contact.

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Gretzky to me has always been one of the great C checkers. If you can't check with him, it's something you are doing wrong.

Also, I find light guys C/b same as fat guys for same weight ratios, just you do it MORE OFTEN w/ fat boys, so you notice it more often.

Speed is not related at all. Some super light slow as hell checkers have long roamed the defense before C/b was found out.

Until C/b, I was one of the top C check whores on the site & aggression & checking & speed have nothing to do with it. The angle, yes. One lunge from a light guy always knocks down a fat guy unless he has really high stick handling or turns just to the safe angles to keep from being flattened.

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Also, I find light guys C/b same as fat guys for same weight ratios, just you do it MORE OFTEN w/ fat boys, so you notice it more often.

I just mean CB in general is more effective than C. To that point, you would only CB with a 3-5 weight guy on another player with 3-5 weight.

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Ah, I mis-read that Rapher.

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I just mean CB in general is more effective than C. To that point, you would only CB with a 3-5 weight guy on another player with 3-5 weight.

I would agree with this. My gdl team of buggers go down with ease against C/b checks. The angle does not seem important with c/b and even slight contact with a c/b checker, as I attempt to skate by, sends my bugger to the ice. On the flip side, when I c check, a solid hit is usually necessary for a successful check. Edited by jackandjose

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Come on guys. It's very simple.

Checks are almost always successful if the checking player is at least two weight points lighter than the player being checked. Checks near the boards work regardless of weight. The odd time, checks work despite the weight difference not being sufficient. High stick-handlers can resist body checks.

CB-checks have a higher rate of success than C checks. I know that I've been able to knock down many players of the same weight or one lighter with CB checks.

That's all you really need to know.

Ideally you want to body check when you know it's going to work, so any extra factors that may make a player a "better" checker (for C checks) are pretty much useless, but it's possible there are some factors that make a player a better CB checker because they don't follow the same rules as regular C checks.

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Aggression has to do with computer checking. That's all I really have to say.

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Come on guys. It's very simple.

  1. C [and CB] Checks near the boards work regardless of weight.
  2. C Checks are almost always successful if the checking player is at least two weight points lighter than the player being checked.
  3. CB-checks have a higher rate of success than C checks. I know that I've been able to knock down many players of the same weight or one lighter with CB checks.

I edited Plabax's "rules" for clarity. I understand 1 and 2, but for CB checks, I would like some clarity. What is the "rule" for a successful CB check? And really, don't they make checks work the way they are supposed to? That is, the "CB" corrects (or rather circumvents) the flaw in the code?

So if you CB checked with every player, the "real" and intended checking effects would come into play. JR and Gretzky, being light, would suck, and heavy guys like Bourque and Hatcher will crush people? All (or most) people, but especially they would crush light guys like JR and Gretzky?

So what is the CB rule: You can crush anyone up to 2 points above your own weight, or below your own weight, or something else?

Edited by aqualizard

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I think speed and agility play their parts in lining up and getting to a check, but I don't think aggression is anything more than the player's reputation with the refs. I think reputation only determines if you will be penalized for any given play and does not change AI behavior nor player-controlled abilities.

also, this whole thread should be moved to the appropriate section.

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Running theory for me now on CB checks is that the "checking" rating factors into the success of the check, in a similar way that smozoma created with his Blitz-checking hack.

I want to test this when I get a chance, but I FEEL like Coffey is not as successful in CB checking as I would have thought given his 9 weight (he has a 2 check rating). It could very well be that I'm just used to having my big 11 weight d-men from last season (both with 4 checking, btw), but I'm still running with this theory for now until I can get some tests done.

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I kind of have the same theory raph. I just played a playoff run with Freddy olausson and his 9 weight with a 1 check. I did a lot of cb with him and it wasn't good, he has issues with 6-7 weight but seemed ok when it got down to 5 or below.

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So what (approximately) do you guys think the CB rule: You can crush anyone up to 2 points above your own weight, or below your own weight, or something else?

I kind of feel like guys with 11 weight can crush anyone, but I am not very good at CB (so what do I know?), and it is probably rare for an 11 to check an 11 or greater, so I probably rarely if ever see it (so have no basis to support my gut feeling)?

One thing seems like a consensus: CB checkers are better at leveling victims than C-checkers, right? (Raph said something like that earlier in this thread, and others, I think.)

Edited by aqualizard

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So what (approximately) do you guys think the CB rule: You can crush anyone up to 2 points above your own weight, or below your own weight, or something else?

I kind of feel like guys with 11 weight can crush anyone, but I am not very good at CB (so what do I know?), and it is probably rare for an 11 to check an 11 or greater, so I probably rarely if ever see it (so have no basis to support my gut feeling)?

One thing seems like a consensus: CB checkers are better at leveling victims than C-checkers, right? (Raph said something like that earlier in this thread, and others, I think.)

Well, there aren't really any 11 weight forwards out there, but I can clearly remember destroying Mario and Bourque (both 10 weight) last season with Iafrate and Kasatonov. High success rate. Brutus has attested to this as much. I can dig through my recordings and pull it up actually...maybe tonight.

So if AJ and I have a similar belief -- probably something similar to Blitz, weight with some checking factor will determine checking success. Basically I would say 11wgt, 4chk could knock anyone out. B)

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that makes sense, though, right? like.... you are charging at the player and then switching away to allow the computer to do its thing and hopefully check the guy, right? so, if his AI attributes predispose him to try to check often, he'll be more likely to do the thing you are hoping he'll do, right? I'm not a Genesis player, so I don't know a lot about the C-B check, but that was my understanding -- that it gets your guy near a check and then switches off of him, so the weight bug calculation isn't done and a different, CORRECT calculation is made on the likelihood of a successful check. so, weight and checking and agility and speed are factors in all of the experience, with weight and checking being the keys once you have B'd off of the dude.

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Well, there aren't really any 11 weight forwards out there, but I can clearly remember destroying Mario and Bourque (both 10 weight) last season with Iafrate and Kasatonov. High success rate. Brutus has attested to this as much. I can dig through my recordings and pull it up actually...maybe tonight.

So if AJ and I have a similar belief -- probably something similar to Blitz, weight with some checking factor will determine checking success. Basically I would say 11wgt, 4chk could knock anyone out. B)

Yes. I believe as well C-B to be much more lenient than 'traditional' checking. C-B reacts exactly like SNES does

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