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Making all advantages even for future seasons of Classic (GENS)

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You won with Detroit, the best road team in the game. They have plenty of in game advantages. Much more so than Winnipeg, whom you beat.

If you wanna talk about advantages helping someone out, let's be consistent with the argument right?

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fact check playtex doesn't make condoms lol .......I meant to say durex! I hope the designer of durex condoms burns in a liquid fueled semen death

What happened? Get a scare? Or is there a mini KG somewhere in the world? I don't think it's fair to blame a major rubber manufacturer. Spend a little more time warming up her engine, get the juices flowing first, instead of just whipping it out and jamming it in a bone-dry love canal.

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if you don't know what's wrong with durex condoms it only means 1 thing I'll let u figure that riddle out my clown friend lol

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You won with Detroit, the best road team in the game. They have plenty of in game advantages. Much more so than Winnipeg, whom you beat.

If you wanna talk about advantages helping someone out, let's be consistent with the argument right?

Detroit has "weak" home advantage (I'm not sure if that does anything) and I had to play 4 home games while Winnipeg is average on both home/away which means the advantages were in my opponent's favour and not mine. Now I don't know if it had any true effect because I believe I was the better player and I won anyway.

You make a good point, but I was #1 in scoring, #1 in shots generated, #1 in shot differential and #1 in goal differential averages in the regular season and the playoffs. I scored the most goals ever by a landslide in a single season of GENS-A. I dominated and was the best player. I started my season 0-7 (I was a rookie) then I won 29 of my final 33 games and carried my momentum into the playoffs.

Now I'm not too sure exactly HOW the advantages work, but the crazy wacky victories you see in Classic almost ALWAYS (or maybe always) happen with a team with the strongest advantages. There are two examples I probably should refrain from using which are Zalex (CHI) vs. Raph (BUF) and Depch (MTL) vs. Raph (BOS) as both teams had even advantages (like Blitz), and Raph seems to not like to use Boston.

However, all the other weird victories in my opinion are:

Flasox (CHI) over Freydey (LA)

Flasox (CHI) over Icestorm (EDM)

Flasox (CHI) over Icestorm (CGY)

Vocally Caged (BUF) over Angryjay (TOR)

Wookiee (CHI) over Zalex (DAL)

Voc (TOR) over brutus (CHI) in 7! (no offense to brutus but he sucked back then!!)

Zalex (CHI) over Plabax (CGY)

HABS (PHI) over Zalex (DET)

Depch (BOS) over Icestorm (TOR)

There are obviously ton of results where the player with the lower advantage came out on top, but you would never see some of those results in a draft league.

Now that I look at it, most of these teams have a good/top goalie. Maybe it is the goaltending. It could be because the teams in classic are able to have a great goalie and great offense whereas that never happens in a draft league. This could be a plausible reason and if true I would have no problem standing corrected :). I know recently that the defense has improved and it has been harder for me to score on Roy and Belfour without the pass shot or a superstar player. Another supporting detail for this argument is that I never really found any results that I found weird involving MTL, a team with strong advantages and Patrick Roy. This could be because MTL does not have a superstar or high offensive firepower that gives them the offense/goalie combo that isn't seen in draft leagues.

However, I still feel that BOS and PHI have that "handicap" feel to them. You rarely see the lesser skilled players picking them so I feel that's why there is a lack of results that support my argument in that department.

Edited by Premium

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I've been a long time fan of 94 and haven't ever participated in a league before(hope to soon!), but reading these threads is hilarious to the casual observer like myself. To be a champion, you gotta beat the best, and the OP failed plain and simple. He doesn't have what it takes to be a champion. Stop trolling and work on your game bro. Someone beat you...study up and get to work and beat that person. Whoever beat you is better than you....admit it and move on. Patriots lost super bowls to eli manning. That pissed Tom Brady off to become the greatest many years later. Tom Brady beat the Seahawks and redeemed himself and became the GOAT. Stop crying and work on your game, you'll feel better when you beat that person whoever you lost to.

Edited by marcusmaximus
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Well... Plabax has loads of championships ;). But Zalex usually ends up being eliminated by either Plabax or KingRaph so may be the 3rd best player, so it shouldn't be a surprise that he pulls off a 7-game series win vs Plabax (having a slightly better team helps, too).

----------

Anyway, I took a look at the home/away stats through all recorded classics last night (too bad the pre-2008 seasons are gone?), and I'll try to find time Thursday night to post my findings, opinions, and conclusions on the Home/Away effects!

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I've been a long time fan of 94 and haven't ever participated in a league before(hope to soon!), but reading these threads is hilarious to the casual observer like myself. To be a champion, you gotta beat the best, and the OP failed plain and simple. He doesn't have what it takes to be a champion. Stop trolling and work on your game bro. Someone beat you...study up and get to work and beat that person. Whoever beat you is better than you....admit it and move on. Patriots lost super bowls to eli manning. That pissed Tom Brady off to become the greatest many years later. Tom Brady beat the Seahawks and redeemed himself and became the GOAT. Stop crying and work on your game, you'll feel better when you beat that person whoever you lost to.

That is a beautiful post. Well said sir.

As for plabax. You make a lot of claims per usual, most of them hold no credence

You claim Winnipeg and Detroit are even on advantages. Well, lets look into that.I think the easiest way to do this is to give every advantage a number of points, as has been done in the game. These ratings can be found by anyone using EARE. The ratings are listed as such...

Offense 0-7 (7 being strong and 0 being weak)

Defense 0-7 (0 being strong and 7 being weak)

PP 0-2 (2 being strong and 0 weak)

PK 0-2 (0 being strong and 2 weak)

Home 0-2 (2 being strong and 0 weak)

Away 0-3 (0 being strong and 3 weak)

Basically I assign points as the rating moves further away from weak for example here is Chicago's advantages

Offense = 2 (2 points)

Defense = 0 (7 points)

PP = 1 (1 point)

PK = 0 (2 points)

Home = 2 (2 points)

Away = 1 (2 points)

Total = 16 points

For brevity sake, let me include some other noteworthy totals

Buffalo = 16

Calgary = 14

Detroit = 17

LA = 11

Montreal =16

Vancouver = 15

Winnipeg = 11

Now back to you crying about the advantages, I don't see much of a difference between Chicago at 16 and Calgary at 14. I mean, its two friggin points and who knows what they really influence. It's all subjective. But somehow this is what screwed you over in a series you should have won. Even you said you don't know how they work, but clearly it was the only reason you lost.

If anyone has a complaint here its Freydey when he used Wpg against your Detroit. A six point difference is hardly what I'd consider equal. How nonchalantly you disregard the advantages you had when its inconvenient to you. I don't care how many #1 stats you had in the regular season. He pushed you to 7 games and playoffs are different from season. Go check the history books, they are littered with #1 ranked teams falling by the way side to teams who didn't have the gaudy stats.

Plus you had Detroit, you're supposed to do damage with them if you're a strong player. Don't act like you did anything that no one ever did.

It's called playoff hockey, you lost and it wasn't because of the advantages. You simply didn't do enough as a player. Buffalo has the same advantage points as Chicago but Raph lost. He didn't do enough. Vancouver has the most championships in classic history but aren't an advantage monster plus Bure sucks right? Not sure how that one fits your logic.

And by the way, Carse scored 303 goals in the fall '10 season. Kinda beats your little "landslide most goals ever"

He also did it in 37 games.

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That is a beautiful post. Well said sir.

As for plabax. You make a lot of claims per usual, most of them hold no credence

You claim Winnipeg and Detroit are even on advantages. Well, lets look into that.I think the easiest way to do this is to give every advantage a number of points, as has been done in the game. These ratings can be found by anyone using EARE. The ratings are listed as such...

Offense 0-7 (7 being strong and 0 being weak)

Defense 0-7 (0 being strong and 7 being weak)

PP 0-2 (2 being strong and 0 weak)

PK 0-2 (0 being strong and 2 weak)

Home 0-2 (2 being strong and 0 weak)

Away 0-3 (0 being strong and 3 weak)

Basically I assign points as the rating moves further away from weak for example here is Chicago's advantages

Offense = 2 (2 points)

Defense = 0 (7 points)

PP = 1 (1 point)

PK = 0 (2 points)

Home = 2 (2 points)

Away = 1 (2 points)

Total = 16 points

For brevity sake, let me include some other noteworthy totals

Buffalo = 16

Calgary = 14

Detroit = 17

LA = 11

Montreal =16

Vancouver = 15

Winnipeg = 11

Now back to you crying about the advantages, I don't see much of a difference between Chicago at 16 and Calgary at 14. I mean, its two friggin points and who knows what they really influence. It's all subjective. But somehow this is what screwed you over in a series you should have won. Even you said you don't know how they work, but clearly it was the only reason you lost.

If anyone has a complaint here its Freydey when he used Wpg against your Detroit. A six point difference is hardly what I'd consider equal. How nonchalantly you disregard the advantages you had when its inconvenient to you. I don't care how many #1 stats you had in the regular season. He pushed you to 7 games and playoffs are different from season. Go check the history books, they are littered with #1 ranked teams falling by the way side to teams who didn't have the gaudy stats.

Plus you had Detroit, you're supposed to do damage with them if you're a strong player. Don't act like you did anything that no one ever did.

It's called playoff hockey, you lost and it wasn't because of the advantages. You simply didn't do enough as a player. Buffalo has the same advantage points as Chicago but Raph lost. He didn't do enough. Vancouver has the most championships in classic history but aren't an advantage monster plus Bure sucks right? Not sure how that one fits your logic.

And by the way, Carse scored 303 goals in the fall '10 season. Kinda beats your little "landslide most goals ever"

He also did it in 37 games.

ouch.. yea put down the mic plab.... battle over.... PEACE.

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The "offense" and "defense" attributes actually don't do anything (the game never reads those values -- unless I screwed up when investigating that)

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The "offense" and "defense" attributes actually don't do anything (the game never reads those values -- unless I screwed up when investigating that)

Even if that is true, we're still talking about 1-2 hidden points between the teams. How is that enough to sway things so drastically as plabax would have you believe?

Vancouver really takes a hit in this situation as they would have 4 attribute points less then Chicago. Yet, they still have the most classic championships. Plabax's claims still don't add up.

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I'll have a post about it tonight, based on classic stats

But basically a team like PHI (2/2) is powerful at home but useless on the road, winning about 30% more out home (OR more accurately 15% more at home and 15% less on the road) so it balances out... Whereas a team like CGY (0/0) neutralizes home-ice advantage and has only a very slight home ice advantage. Teams like BOS (2/1) do have a slight positive imbalance in their home/away advantages, but I believe the effect is minor compared to the balanced teams (although I'll take a closer look at that tonight).

On average, yes home ice advantage is real and is around 10-15%. But the topic is a mountain out of a molehill: if you want home ice advantage in the Classic playoffs, earn it in the regular season. I mean, that's exactly how the pros do it (except baseball, where they decide it with the all star game??).

On the weekend I'll figure out exactly what the advantages do (I looked at it before but my notes weren't very good). I remember that on the PP you got a shooting accuracy boost, and the Home advantage gave you some Awareness boosts. Away advantage gave you an aggression boost (btw I could never prove using the Blitz stats that Aggression led to more penalties, the correlation was not strong enough to be conclusive). Some boosts could be cancelled, some could not.

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The Offense/Defense Ratings are known as Sim Data.

They only apply for CPU vs CPU games.

It is the same in TSB.

Pittsburgh is very strong which is why if you are a Campbell Team you have a good chance of seeing them in the Finals.

Ottawa is very weak and unlikely to win 3 simmed series to make Finals.

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The Offense/Defense Ratings are known as Sim Data.

They only apply for CPU vs CPU games.

It is the same in TSB.

Pittsburgh is very strong which is why if you are a Campbell Team you have a good chance of seeing them in the Finals.

Ottawa is very weak and unlikely to win 3 simmed series to make Finals.

That makes sense, thanks. For generating simmed scores. I can test for that this weekend to see if the game reads those values in the playoffs or when showing Out-of-Town Scores.

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That is a beautiful post. Well said sir.

As for plabax. You make a lot of claims per usual, most of them hold no credence

You claim Winnipeg and Detroit are even on advantages. Well, lets look into that.I think the easiest way to do this is to give every advantage a number of points, as has been done in the game. These ratings can be found by anyone using EARE. The ratings are listed as such...

Offense 0-7 (7 being strong and 0 being weak)

Defense 0-7 (0 being strong and 7 being weak)

PP 0-2 (2 being strong and 0 weak)

PK 0-2 (0 being strong and 2 weak)

Home 0-2 (2 being strong and 0 weak)

Away 0-3 (0 being strong and 3 weak)

Basically I assign points as the rating moves further away from weak for example here is Chicago's advantages

Offense = 2 (2 points)

Defense = 0 (7 points)

PP = 1 (1 point)

PK = 0 (2 points)

Home = 2 (2 points)

Away = 1 (2 points)

Total = 16 points

For brevity sake, let me include some other noteworthy totals

Buffalo = 16

Calgary = 14

Detroit = 17

LA = 11

Montreal =16

Vancouver = 15

Winnipeg = 11

Now back to you crying about the advantages, I don't see much of a difference between Chicago at 16 and Calgary at 14. I mean, its two friggin points and who knows what they really influence. It's all subjective. But somehow this is what screwed you over in a series you should have won. Even you said you don't know how they work, but clearly it was the only reason you lost.

If anyone has a complaint here its Freydey when he used Wpg against your Detroit. A six point difference is hardly what I'd consider equal. How nonchalantly you disregard the advantages you had when its inconvenient to you. I don't care how many #1 stats you had in the regular season. He pushed you to 7 games and playoffs are different from season. Go check the history books, they are littered with #1 ranked teams falling by the way side to teams who didn't have the gaudy stats.

Plus you had Detroit, you're supposed to do damage with them if you're a strong player. Don't act like you did anything that no one ever did.

It's called playoff hockey, you lost and it wasn't because of the advantages. You simply didn't do enough as a player. Buffalo has the same advantage points as Chicago but Raph lost. He didn't do enough. Vancouver has the most championships in classic history but aren't an advantage monster plus Bure sucks right? Not sure how that one fits your logic.

And by the way, Carse scored 303 goals in the fall '10 season. Kinda beats your little "landslide most goals ever"

He also did it in 37 games.

I am referring to HOME/AWAY advantages not the other ones. I don't know if the other ones have any effect. I heard they were for computer sim games. I KNOW the home/away have an effect. You can feel the home/away advantages in play. Don't deny that. Teams like Boston and Philadelphia are definitely super powered. They definitely get a higher stickhandle rating on occasion in comparison to GDL or any other average rated team. Maybe the players get more agility, awareness and shot power/accuracy as well. I don't know, but there definitely is an advantage.

Still, I had Detroit and I won. Only me and Sebe have won with Detroit in recent times despite players like Freydey, Flasox, Raph, Zalex, FPB and Uncle Seth having to play with them. You rarely see the top top guys picking Chicago or any of the other teams that would benefit strongly from advantages besides Carse and the times he had Buffalo and I guess Raph and Buffalo so you don't see a lot of wins from those teams. The results for Chicago are close if not better than the results for Detroit despite the coach and player skill for Detroit being way higher. Vancouver has better results possibly because their advantages. If they were even I'm sure Detroit would be better. The only two guys that have used both DET/VAN lost with DET but won with VAN.

And, Carse didn't score 300+ in GENS-A. He did it in GENS A/B/C.

Edited by Premium

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Didn't get around to posting my look at home/away records, will tomorrow

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IMO, home/away advantages pale in comparison to the effects of hot & cold. And in classic, its hidden, so many can't say for sure whether the advantages screwed/helped them or they caught the cold/hot bug. More people around here are finally starting to take notice of its effects. But many are still either not perceptive enough to notice or reluctant to believe it. Way bigger issue than home/away will ever be from an impact on results standpoint.

Don't even get me started on penalties!

I understand why some prefer classic to remain untouched. I'm heavily in favor of changing aspects of classic though. But the consensus has spoken and therefore it feels like a lost cause. Everyone knows GDL is the most coveted trophy. But classic IMO could be more respected by some of us, if what we believe are improvements are made.

Or we just create a new league with what we want.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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IMO, home/away advantages pale in comparison to the effects of hot & cold. And in classic, its hidden, so many can't say for sure whether the advantages screwed/helped them or they caught the cold/hot bug. More people around here are finally starting to take notice of its effects. But many are still either not perceptive enough to notice or reluctant to believe it. Way bigger issue than home/away will ever be from an impact on results standpoint.

Don't even get me started on penalties!

I understand why some prefer classic to remain untouched. I'm heavily in favor of changing aspects of classic though. But the consensus has spoken and therefore it feels like a lost cause. Everyone knows GDL is the most coveted trophy. But classic IMO could be more respected by some of us, if what we believe are improvements are made.

Or we just create a new league with what we want.

The difference between the two is that hot/cold is theoretically 50/50 and hidden while the home/away advantages are deliberately uneven but not hidden. Hot/Cold should balance out whereas the advantages aren't supposed to.

When do people ever lose because of hot/cold? With hot/cold enabled and even advantages across the board, I went to the finals in seven leagues straight and won all but one series before game 7. It is very unlikely that the hot/cold has a bigger impact than the advantages, which are clearly seen to have some sort of impact in the results.

And, even if "HOT", the boost that is received is not as drastic if the advantages aren't as high. So in GDL or with average/weak advantaged teams the HOT/COLD you see is not as extreme as you would find it in Classic with the strong advantages.

Edited by Premium

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The difference between the two is that hot/cold is theoretically 50/50 and hidden while the home/away advantages are deliberately uneven but not hidden. Hot/Cold should balance out whereas the advantages aren't supposed to.

When do people ever lose because of hot/cold? With hot/cold enabled and even advantages across the board, I went to the finals in seven leagues straight and won all but one series before game 7. It is very unlikely that the hot/cold has a bigger impact than the advantages, which are clearly seen to have some sort of impact in the results.

And, even if "HOT", the boost that is received is not as drastic if the advantages aren't as high. So in GDL or with average/weak advantaged teams the HOT/COLD you see is not as extreme as you would find it in Classic with the strong advantages.

Paragraph 1: Agree

Paragraph 2: Disagree (people can definitely win and lose games in based on who is hot/cold. It doesn't always even out in the short term, for example in a series. Long term yes).

Paragraph 3: Agree (good point about the combined effect. Obviously that is greater than either factors are alone).

Edited by Uncle Seth

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hey seth please tell me you at least somewhat believe in momentum now

Edited by TomKabs93

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Players skill 70%

game momentum 25%

hot/cold/adv/ 5%

that sounds pretty damn accurate to me

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Players skill 70%

game momentum 25%

hot/cold/adv/ 5%

How about the draft league version...

Players skill 98%

Game Momentum 2%

:)

Edited by Premium

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How about the draft league version...

Players skill 98%

Game Momentum 2%

:)

nawww. draft lg is more like

85% skill

10% momentum

5% hot/cold

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70% player skill. That's an extremely low number if you think about it. Only 70% of the game is reliant on player skill? 30% relying on luck is a bit too much in my opinion, I'd say maybe 20% or 15% of the game depends on team/luck for Classic. That is just enough room for the guys like Flasox and Wookiee to get their free wins in.

A more accurate representation of a draft league is:

95% Player Skill

4.9% Team

0.1% Momentum/Hot/Cold

The team can decide who wins but it often doesn't. The momentum exists but it rarely (if ever) determines the outcome of a series. I don't think I have ever won or lost a series because of momentum or hot and cold but I believe I have lost a series and it's possible I've won some because of my team.

Still, I've won 25 playoff series in the draft leagues and only one was in seven games. If the momentum and hot/cold truly had a 10% impact on the game, you would see some closer matchups.

Edited by Premium

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I was more thinking per game and not per series

the 25% can help you fluke out games but not often whole series

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Yeah, thinking of individual games...explains why some games can be 10-0, while others 2-3 with the same teams, players.

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If it even exists (I don't believe), momentum is a miniscule factor. 25% LOL. Momentum isn't even worth mentioning compared to effects of home/away & hot/cold. Both of which are proven. Momentum is the psychological effects of past events on future outcomes. It's in one's head.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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I think the amount of misinformation plabax has dropped is appalling. I'm tired of pointing it out. I'll just say this.

Its been over a year since plabax did anything. A lot of good players have come back and others have improved. I think it's as simple as this. You aren't as good as you think, you are vulnerable to what ever conspiracy you want to draw up.

Look in the mirror and get better. You can no longer cruise by on what you used to do.

Plenty of other players have overcome disadvantages real and perceived. Perhaps they are more skilled than you.

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I think the amount of misinformation plabax has dropped is appalling. I'm tired of pointing it out. I'll just say this.

Its been over a year since plabax did anything. A lot of good players have come back and others have improved. I think it's as simple as this. You aren't as good as you think, you are vulnerable to what ever conspiracy you want to draw up.

Look in the mirror and get better. You can no longer cruise by on what you used to do.

Plenty of other players have overcome disadvantages real and perceived. Perhaps they are more skilled than you.

Hey, that's a fine opinion. Maybe the other guys with no championships and worse results are more skilled than me, but the results and the play definitely don't suggest that. That is my reasoning behind it. I use RESULTS and knowledge of skill to make my statements. I don't think I am the best just because, I think I am the best because statistically I have the best results and when I play against others I am clearly better.

Sure I haven't done anything in over a year but go to the finals four times and win three titles consecutively, but that's OK too. I do know that it is you who feels the need to run and update your sig for winning TWO titles consecutively, however winning THREE consecutively is nothing. So, next time I forget, I will need you to remind me yet again that my accomplishments are nothing.

I haven't registered for any league since GDL 14, that is why my results have slowed down. But hey, at the end of the day, all that is misinformation and it's tiring you out!! I don't want to keep tiring you out so I will side with you and admit that I am nothing special:

Hey.. I'm Plabax, and I have done NOTHING in my time here at NHL'94.com. I won the GENS-A season as a rookie. I have also won five draft league titles (nobody has won more), and I did it in the span of six seasons with the one loss coming in a game 7 that was decided with one minute remaining!! I wish I were good at this game so I could justify my complaints that are backed up with stats and facts. But.. having six titles, the highest playoff win percentage ever and a winning playoff record against every opponent he has ever played (as a non-replacement) just doesn't cut it in the eyes of the four-time champ who wins via. forfeit and lag spikes, angryjay93 and others like the almighty CoachMac, who has dominated every single opponent in his simmed NHLPA '93 league and even the legend himself, Sebe, who admit his inferiority to and infatuation of Raph to the point where he changed his display picture to a close-up of Raph's face but covers it up by having a wife and hasn't updated his Comic Sans signature since the 90s because he hasn't won in so long.

The last seven leagues I registered for:

GDL 14 - Runner-Up

GDL 13 - Champion

Blitz 11 - Champion

Blitz 10 - Champion

GDL 12 - Runner-Up

Blitz 09 - Champion

GDL 11 - Champion

Yeah I lost a couple of classics as a replacement and I'm not going to count that. Sure I've beaten others such as FPB and Zalex who were replacements, but who cares because it wouldn't have made any difference. The only time I registered for GENS A and played in the playoffs, I won. I haven't even registered since 2013. I can promise a victory if I do register next Classic, pick my team under fair circumstances, play my games and not get my seeding screwed by time constraints and the coach I replaced.

Edited by Premium

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Ancient history bud. What have you done for us lately aside from crying a river over something you cant even quantify?

You have used zero facts. All you points have been based on opinion and subjectivity.

Feel free to try again.

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