Best Coaches that Don't CB or Pass Shoot?


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Who are the best coaches that do not use any of "tricks", specifically CB checking and Pass Shooting?

I hear KGman's name mentioned before, but did he really *never* use these techniques, as in 0%?

Any other Old School types to add to the list? (By Old School I mean those who play traditionally, without the trick plays.)

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had to incorporate cb into my game after being on the wrong side of a beat down from the likes of kingraph master of all that is cb

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had to incorporate cb into my game after being on the wrong side of a beat down from the likes of kingraph master of all that is cb

So if even KG is using CB, possibly *no one* at a high level is getting by without it?

And what about pass shots, kgman, do you ever do those?

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I'd probably say BoKnows* is the only person who I can think of that doesn't CB or pass shoot that can win a B league.

* if he plays

Though, any of the top coaches would still be the best without using CB and/or pass shots.

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I'd probably say BoKnows* is the only person who I can think of that doesn't CB or pass shoot that can win a B league.

A "B League"? In other words, all of the A-lIsters Pass Shoot and CB check, to varying degrees?

(I had thought that there were a few, talented hold outs -- like KG [now proven wrong] -- that could still compete at the highest level without the tricks? Guess I was wrong.)

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Well.. I'm a lower-A-league player and passhot is something I use pretty rarely (pretty much breakaways only). I haven't played enough in the past few years to be any good with C/B (I probably used it 3 times in all of the TOronto tourney). Do I count? :)

I also originally did not use the B check because I considered it to be cheating (rarely-punished tripping), but that was pre-GDL1.

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kingraph master of all that is cb?

I don't have many claims to fame here but I will say that I'm on par w/anyone in terms of pure CB skills. Raph uses smarter defensemen who are more defensive-minded and often heavier. I'll use middle and even lightweights to CB with. When he uses a guy like Stevens, Zalapski, Kasatonov etc., those players can CB from behind to nail a guy on a breakaway. It will leave you thinking "what the F____?, I can't escape this, even when I get behind the D". Whereas I'll CB you in an instance you thought you were immune to it, making you pause the game to check my players' weight and also say to yourself "what the ____". Then you got guys like Plabax who claim to only CB 10% of the time, so you anticipate that amount. But when you play them it's more like 50-60%. So another what the blank moment.

I know, a bit of a rant.

I don't know anyone gets as good some of these coaches are with pass-shot. And I don't know how everyone isn't good at CB, given how simple it is.

Edited by Uncle Seth
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Plabax rarely used the pass shot vs me and was a HUGE B check queen at his top performance level.

If I had to play vs one guy and we were NOT allowed to CB or B shot, he'd probably rank as #1 to face.

With the C/B & Pass shot, I put Raph as #1. He was/is a very strong opponent w/out them, but to me, those 2 facets are what I see as a game changer when facing him.

I do agree w/ Seth and his tangent post up there that he is one of the best Cb's. Not much to add to his side note other than both Raph & Seth are annoying to play now with their crazed CB checkingness.

However, primarily the same guys who are AT THE TOP have been before heavy use of Cb or pass shots. They dominate in their mastery of all deke's, manual goalie control, B check or C check based off of weight and have memorized the player data base inside and out. Most of them have been online for 4-5 years PLUS, and also played the game since 1994.

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I'd argue Seth's CB checking is one of the biggest detriments to his game. He does so without thought or purpose (100% CB checking) and a patient player can wait for him to fly his guys out of position for high quality scoring chances.

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i rarely passhoot and attempted to cb maybe 5 times total at ko94. I can kinda cb check now, not very well tho

and im an ok player

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I'd argue Seth's CB checking is one of the biggest detriments to his game. He does so without thought or purpose (100% CB checking) and a patient player can wait for him to fly his guys out of position for high quality scoring chances.

You are correct, at times. When I'm overdoing it, it's often a cause of major problems or resulting frustration of not playing well. When I'm playing smart it's extremely effective. It basically depends on if I'm playing smart and relaxed or stupid, rusty and frustrated.

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out of the 91 klima goals in my video only 2 were passhots

80% of my passhots are into my own net when im mad

that video is like 5 years old, you pass shot way more now than then. You aren't even aware you do it nor do you remember anything that happened in any game, even immediately afterwards. Right now, 80% of your goals are slap-dekes.

Edited by Uncle Seth
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that video is like 5 years old, you pass shot way more now than then. You aren't even aware you do it nor do you remember anything that happened in any game, even immediately afterwards. Right now, 80% of your goals are slap-dekes.

yeah man, I think I have a memory disorder lol

honestly im pretty sure I passhotted more back then

Edited by TomKabs93
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It is interesting to me that all of the pros (upper end of A) do CB and Pass Shoot. It is hard to gauge the lay of the land from down here (middling B level) because I don't play many As, but my feelings are:

1. Mastering CB is a much bigger advantage than Pass Shots (although I wish someone would indicate if KG pass shoots at all?)

2. Raph hammers home even without CB and PS, a top tier A guy will beat the Bs (by extension: A solid game is more important than CB and Pass shots.)

3. I think you need other people to comment on what opponents do, because (many) coaches can't be objective about their own style

So for once and for all, does KG pass shoot?

And who has the most variety in their pass shots?

Edited by aqualizard
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I do not pass shoot and I cb sparingly but that's more to the fact that I c check sparingly as well.

I get the feeling a lot of people don't necessarily view much of my skills as top tier. I'm not the best deker, my gc isn't the best, I'm not a great body checker, I'm not exactly the fastest with my reactions, etc.

If I'm to speak specifically about myself and why I'd still be good without cb check and pass shots is that my focus rarely wavers. I try to make my opponent earn every inch on the ice. I think that's probably the toughest thing about playing me. I'm willing to have a game plan, stick to it and grind it out in a battle of wills.

Like I said above, I'm probably not the best at any one game skill but I feel have very few weak spots to exploit and that I read the game well. I see open ice well, I anticipate well, I'm disciplined, strategic, etc. I think there are many instances where someone looks back at a game they played against me and wonder how the hell I win because I didn't do anything special or perceived to be unstoppable.

I think the best way to sum me up in nhl 94 player ratings is that I have a bunch of 4 ratings with 6 awareness. I'm good, but not special. my brain makes up for it and allows me to play above my skill level.

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I think there are many instances where someone looks back at a game they played against me and wonder how the hell I win because I didn't do anything special or perceived to be unstoppable.

Nailed this. I know when I play AJ, I do approach it like the CPU on expert mode. Very methodical, and the game will adapt to stop your strengths and exploit your weaknesses. Both from a player (coach) perspective and team! Very difficult to play against, you have to keep him guessing by switching up offensive/defensive methods.

Similarly, I also called swos "sneaky good". Though he loves the backhand pass shot from lefties and occasional keg toss, he is someone you THINK you can beat, but will lose to more often than not.

And anyone who doesn't think AJ is "top tier" is crazy.

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Strange thread though...not sure of the point. It's like asking who is the best player who doesn't use B-check. Who is the best with auto goalie. Who is the best without using one-timers. Who is the best without using rebound goals. Use it all!

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Strange thread though...not sure of the point. It's like asking who is the best player who doesn't use B-check. Who is the best with auto goalie. Who is the best without using one-timers. Who is the best without using rebound goals. Use it all!

Yes a little strange and somewhat awkward especially that I just gave myself a self evaluation since I despise talking like that on the forums these days.

I felt it was appropriate though because I think aqua figured we all use the hell out of cb amd pass shots. If we don't then it seems prudent to say how we go about being successful while using other skills or tactics.

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Strange thread though...not sure of the point. It's like asking who is the best player who doesn't use B-check. Who is the best with auto goalie. Who is the best without using one-timers. Who is the best without using rebound goals. Use it all!

Well I could say a lot about the point of the thread, and defend my reasoning, but it would be absurd. (Even moreso because you have posted here multiple times, for which I thank you! :))

Suffice to say I start threads to stimulate conversations, never knowing where they will go. And if there is a point or two raised that I didn't know before, I find it interesting, and by extension perhaps others do, too. ;)

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Easy answer... Look at Blitz.

I had the least amount of body checks and the highest amount of non pass-shot goals... Three times in a row! :)

I would nominate myself.

Edited by Premium
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AJ is like the chess grandmaster of NHL'94. You feel like you got checkmated when he scores on you, like it was a plan that required certain pieces to be in certain places and he made sure that happened.

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However, I do think all top coaches could play without the CB or pass shot at a very high level. CB/Pass Shot aren't essential tools to being a great player.

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