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smozoma

Tournament Rules questions

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Topic for discussing rules of play during the tournament.

Line Editing:

Someone on reddit asked what the rules on line editing are.

How often can people edit their lines?

We need to balance fairness with keeping things moving.

Some suggested times to be allowed to change your lines:

  • Start of the game: coin toss winner sets lines first, coin toss loser sets lines second.
  • Q1: or should the loser get to choose first?
  • Period intermissions: order reversed from start of game / previous intermission
  • After a player on your team gets hurt.
  • Q2: should the other player get to respond with a line change of their own? Note that you don't always get a penalty when you injure the other team (eg goalie injures player)
  • When you get a penalty.
  • Q3: should the power play guy also get to change his lines?

What if we just have a timer and you get 1 minute total to edit your lines throughout the game? I think that is too tricky to organize.

Should we say you get 1 minute to edit your lines at the start of the game, then subsequent times you get 10 seconds per change?

I think it's important to suggest that players change their lines before the intermission starts (after the horn), so there is no problem with people pressing Start before the other person can make a change.

Pausing:

When are you allowed to pause the game?

Obviously you should not be allowed to pause during gameplay... But what sort of arguments can we cut off ahead of time?

Hiding:

Remember when Brutus(was it?) lost a tourney because the guy hid behind the net the whole game after getting a 1-0 lead? What's the rule on that? Some kind of shot clock?

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Also, some people on reddit are confused by manual goalie, they think it means the goalie is ALWAYS manual, so maybe it should say optionally manual goalie

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I'm wondering if the guys who pause and scroll through menu after getting scored on will do that in person, or is that a way of letting opponent know they're pissed?

maybe have a placard of all the ethical rules for each table so guys are aware.

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I'm wondering if the guys who pause and scroll through menu after getting scored on will do that in person, or is that a way of letting opponent know they're pissed?

maybe have a placard of all the ethical rules for each table so guys are aware.

I thought that was to show lag

Yep, a rules placard would be nice

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no some guys do it because theyre pissed too ahem King

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I think guys can do line edits after a paused game.

The big issue is too long of a pause.

So in general, 20-30 secs or you risk a ref disqualifying you?

Same with hiding behind the net type thing. In general, if you are straight doing some really lame, no one else in the tourney but you is doing, it's a DQ.

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I think guys can do line edits after a paused game.

The big issue is too long of a pause.

So in general, 20-30 secs or you risk a ref disqualifying you?

Same with hiding behind the net type thing. In general, if you are straight doing some really lame, no one else in the tourney but you is doing, it's a DQ.

Long edits are bad, but so are too many short ones, they add up.

Maybe give 1 or 2 "free" line edits that can be done after any stoppage? Because yeah if you make a bad choice or get countered when choosing your starting line, waiting for a penalty or end of the period to change would be really frustrating.

As for long edits, maybe something like, before the game you get 1 minute, anything in the 1st period or 1st intermission, 30 seconds, then it's 15 seconds after that. If you go over, you get a warning and ~10 seconds to finish whatever you're doing, then from then on you'd be DQd if you took too long (ref must give 5 seconds notice).

For lame exploits, the thing is, you can't just go.. "ok you're disqualified" out of nowhere, so best to come up with rules ahead of time. Rules could be changed/added during the tourney if something weird comes up, and you say you can't do that anymore, but DQing someone out of the blue shouldn't happen.

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no some guys do it because theyre pissed too ahem King

:rolleyes:

Much like playoff games, it'll be unlikely I pause after I get scored on. Unless it's vs. IceStorm. :lol:

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Maybe to keep things simple, you get to set your lines at the start, then you have 3 line change tokens to use. Max 30 seconds per token. Lose a token if you go over. DQd if you go over on your last token.

Maybe different rules during the Final 16 to make it more honour-system-y.

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Truly one of the most annoying things people do.

I have not played much online and I am not very good, but when you score and a guy cuts off your goal song it sucks.

I mentioned this to halifax long ago when this tourney first got going.

The hiding thing also will probably happen.

When we run tourney's we allow edits only at the beginning.

No pauses or subs after the opening faceoff.

Smoz's last post seems reasonable, maybe limit it to 1 or 2?

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I think you have to allow some sort of substitutions, otherwise guys are going to get totally screwed by players that randomly decide not to catch passes for an entire game. And even apart from that sometimes you just need to bring in a heavier guy, or a faster guy, etc.

Honestly in the SNES games I've played I haven't had a big issue with people abusing line changes or doing anything too "unethical". But maybe I've gotten lucky.

I would say anything goes at the tourney but I realize you might run into time constraints. A certain number of line changes per game might be the way forward but it's a little tough to enforce.

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I really doubt line change abuse will be much of a problem. All the online 94ers who are going have good little boy reputations, and I really doubt many regular joes who show up will be pausing every whistle. I think you should be allowed to change lines for every penalty kill, and really whenever you want for the most part as long as you don't abuse it.

I guess you're being careful just incase there is a wacklord, just to have some rules set down so it's official.

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no some guys do it because theyre pissed too ahem King

Pausing after a goal if you are the away team stops the music from playing, and some say myself included that this is cheese, because the music playing is part of the home team gaining momentum on their side, and that pause is essentially like taking a free time out if you are the away team.

Edit what Mac said.

Edited by Lupz27

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Would be nice to have a "Spirit of NHL94" rules to set the tone for the event. Would be a positive way to get the point accross.

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What's the spectator situation going to be? Anyone can walk in, right?

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I think it's important that people know ahead of time if they are the morning group or afternoon group. they shouldn't have to arrive at 8am to find out they play at 1pm. When will participants find out which group they are in?

Another reddit question is:

Can they enter into both consoles? Assuming they pay 2 registration fees and don't have a chance of making the final 16 on both (as is realistically the case with any non-nhl94.com player), it seems safe (they could be scheduled into the morning group for one console, the afternoon group for the other). On the other hand, it'd be nice to get more participants, rather than guys playing both.

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What about the penalty shot bugs?

Bug 1: You get awarded a penalty shot, but before the penalty shot starts, you pick up the puck again and shoot it. It will go in and the game will count it. (I think the penalty shot then doesn't happen, but you already scored a free goal).

Bug 2: You trip/whatever the opponent and take a penalty shot against. You can switch your goalie, and then the player can not score, the puck will go through the net and boards.

Bug 3: On a penalty shot, if the goalie successfully pokechecks the puck away. The shooter can go and pick the puck up again for another shot. This is definitely against NHL rules, but the game doesn't realize it should stop the play.

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A few people on reddit have asked about the wraparound glitch.

Is there a wraparound glitch in the SNES '94 version? Or was that an NHLPA'93 bug?

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A few people on reddit have asked about the wraparound glitch.

Is there a wraparound glitch in the SNES '94 version? Or was that an NHLPA'93 bug?

There is no wraparound glitch in SNES '94.

In NHLPA '93 you had the glitch where the goalie got stuck on the far post sometimes, leading to an almost empty net.

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What about the penalty shot bugs?

Bug 1: You get awarded a penalty shot, but before the penalty shot starts, you pick up the puck again and shoot it. It will go in and the game will count it. (I think the penalty shot then doesn't happen, but you already scored a free goal).

Bug 2: You trip/whatever the opponent and take a penalty shot against. You can switch your goalie, and then the player can not score, the puck will go through the net and boards.

Bug 3: On a penalty shot, if the goalie successfully pokechecks the puck away. The shooter can go and pick the puck up again for another shot. This is definitely against NHL rules, but the game doesn't realize it should stop the play.

My take:

1 - how is that a free goal? Seems like a legit goal to me.

2 - I'm not aware of that glitch. If it's true, then a goalie switch at that time should not be allowed.

3 - It's a legit goal. There are many inconsistencies with NHL rules but this isn't the actual NHL.

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My take:

1 - how is that a free goal? Seems like a legit goal to me.

2 - I'm not aware of that glitch. If it's true, then a goalie switch at that time should not be allowed.

3 - It's a legit goal. There are many inconsistencies with NHL rules but this isn't the actual NHL.

1 - This is when the whistle stops the play, and in the 2-3 seconds after the whistle but before the penalty shot, you shoot the puck at the net, it goes in!

#1 I'd be most concerned about. #2 I doubt anyone tries. #3, agree with Bob K., everything goes.

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#1 is very easy to do by accident. How do we handle it?

#2 We should point out this is not allowed. I did this by accident once, thinking it would be funny to swap goalies. Got beat, but the puck went right through the net. If someone forgets (or "forgets"), what do we do?

#3 When I play, I don't try to score if I get pokechecked (honour system - you pokechecked me, you deserve it to count as a save), but I have no problem if we allow it.

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There a few instances where changing goalie "in game" can cause the goalie to run through a face off, etc.

I'd put in there no "pausing the game" to change goalies except at the end of the game to YANK the goalie if you are down, and put like a 5 second pause rule on that, OR DISABLE it as an option all together.

Like, only pulling goalie during a stoppage in play, and no changing goalies after face off starts or before a penalty shot.

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You seriously haven't played anyone that did that during a league or playoff game??

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I'm working on an FAQ for the site which can touch on a lot of this.

Here are my thoughts on what has been discussed (of course let me know if I've missed any topics)

Line changes

-I'm fine with line changes at the beginning of the game and intermissions, and when players are injured. It will be the responsibility of both coaches to let the other know they are done before starting the game (otherwise grounds for restart). If the other occasional one happens on a stoppage id be fine with that...I think anything more than that is excessive and can be monitored by a ref asking the player to adhere to it. the only time pausing during play is to pull the goalie and the team pulling the goalie should have puck possession. If there's a mid game pause then it's really a case by case basis on how it was done, what was occurring and when it happened. maybe its loss of puck possession, or replay of period, or continue on if there's no impact, if the coaches disagree on a resolution, then refs decision.

Delaying the Game

I know this discussion was had in another thread and I'm still not sold on it that it's an issue to have a hard fast rule. However, I acknowledge that people will play/act differently when money is involved. If someone wants to show me a video for both gens and snes, where the top lines are out and someone tries to play keep away for a entire period. I'd like to see what that would look like.

Hot/Cold viewing (I added this)

It will be the responsibility of the coach to inform the other coach that he wants to see the hot and cold list.

Pressing Pause to stop the music

Maybe this is a gens thing. I don't really consider this an issue. I understand how someone might find it irritating. If the guys wants to pause and stop the music, I don't have a problem with that.

Spectators attending

Yes of course!

time starts

I'll post times two or three days in advance of the tournament.

playing in multiple tournaments

No... but something to look at for next year

The penalty shot bugs

I think the ones that smoz listed must all be for gens. bug 3 would definitely be allowed to count.

For the other two, you might have to clarify a bit more...are you saying every time there's a penalty shot in gens you can score a goal without taking a shot?

With bug number two...If I always pull my goalie before the penalty shot, the other guy can never score?

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Hot/Cold viewing

For Sega at least, we should point out that it really doesn't matter -- the hot cold ratings are not connected to the actual hot/cold of the players. Same in the edit lines, so guys don't waste time trying to find the hot guys. Actually, I kind of think we should tell all attendees about the Sega weight bug and CB check, so we don't have a lot of upset noobs. The sooner the better.

The penalty shot bugs

Here how bug #1 works.
You get tripped on a breakaway. The ref calls a penalty shot. Go get the puck and shoot it in the net before the screen darkens and brings you to the actual penalty shot. The puck goes in the net and you have scored a goal... after the whistle...
Bug #2: Yes, that is correct. If you swap your goalies, the shooter can not score on the penalty shot. The puck will go through the net.

Pressing Pause to stop the music

I think it's wrong to stop the music in leagues, but in a tournament where you don't get to alternate home/away, if you think killing the music stops the crowd from encouraging the team... I kinda think that's ok.

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Ahhh, I remembered it wrong: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/7109-penalty-shot-bug/

If you pull the goalie, first, the penalty shot does not happen. BUT, at the end of the period, suddenly you get the penalty shot. BUT, if you beat the goalie on that penalty shot, the puck will go through the net and you will not get a goal.

But anyway, the effect is the same: if you switch your goalie for a penalty shot, you prevent a the penalty shot goal.

Anyway, we should say that if you change your goalie on a penalty shot and something goes wrong, it counts as a goal against the offender. Do not switch your goalie for the penalty shot.

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I kinda think the pausing the game and scrolling through the menu is a way to let your opponent know that sucked and I'm pissed.

Thinking being in person makes it less needed. You can tell your opponent this is billshut

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I think some people do the quick pause/unpause to say "nice goal"?

--

I also think we need an "acts of 94 gods" rule. For example, that goal that's in a video somewhere where the puck lands on top of the net then falls through the net for a goal. Do we count that as an Act of 94 Gods and count it?

Also, once in a blue moon on the Sega version, you can shoot the puck at the goal after the whistle, the puck stops on the line like normal.. then for some reason a couple seconds later, the puck goes in for a goal. Do we count that?

And I think I saw a video once where someone scored from behind the net, the puck just went through the back of the net for a goal.

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Pressing Pause to stop the music

I think it's wrong to stop the music in leagues, but in a tournament where you don't get to alternate home/away, if you think killing the music stops the crowd from encouraging the team... I kinda think that's ok.

I think this should be fine as long as it's done after a couple seconds of celebrating. Oftentimes, if you get scored on, you might want to pause the game to call a timeout, change your goalie, or change a player. You want to do this before the center ice face-off, so it has to be during the celebration.

But there should be some guidelines around pausing.

e.g.

You may only pause in the following cases:

-change your goalie (goalie may only be changed once per game, with the exception of "pulling" the goalie).

-change your lines (maximum five times per game)

-address a medical emergency

.. there are probably others...

AND

You can only pause the game when:

-you have possession of the puck on your own side of center ice.

-in between periods

-in between a whistle and a faceoff

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