Ranking the Top 25 Forwards


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I decided to take a stab at ranking the top 25 forwards, in a gdl/classic world. It seemed like an easy task, but I honestly ended up thinking about this for like 2 hours lol. It is harrrrrrd to decide who's better when two players are similar, but even harder when it's two players who are equally good in differing ways. I basically weigh Weight, Agility, Speed, Shot Power, Shot Accuracy, Stickhandling, and Passing far more heavily than all the other attributes. When it comes to forwards these are the attributes that I think truly matter.

I understand that most people won't want to put their own top 25. Out of fear of people using it against them in future gdl's or something lol, but I'm looking to get some discussion over this regardless. Feel free to criticize any ranking of mine, as major or minor as you'd like. Call me out please I welcome it. Anyway, here's what I ended up deciding:

1. Roenick - The perfect man. I think everyone knows this by now :)

2. Yzerman - As good a skater as Roenick (with weight factored in), and basically equal otherwise with just a little weaker shot.

3. Mogilny - Definitely worse than Yzerman, but still amazing. His super speed + 7 weight makes him a bit hard to handle, even with 6 agility.

4. Selanne - Slightly faster than Mogilny because of 1 less weight, but the 1 less agility makes him even harder to handle. Him and

Mogilny are far better than #5+ but just can't deke quite like Roenick and Yzerman.

5. Ciccarelli - Such a solid skater, and a basically perfect shot. Just can't quite skate like the four above him.

6. Klima - I'm probably going to take some flak here, but he really is a superstar. 7 weight + 5 5 skating is imo creates the perfect deking ability, and this paired with a very good 4 5 shot makes him dangerous. 5 Stickhandling makes him dodge the odd B check as well. Lastly, he seems to be oddly good at cherrypicking, and this is thought to be due to his 2 defensive awareness.

7. Bure - You might be surprised at him being this low, but hear me out. He is considerably faster than Klima (2 lower weight and 1 higher speed), and his agility is the same. But this has consequences. His speed being higher than his agility makes him sort of hard to handle, which makes him weaker at deking. The extra speed is not worth it in my eyes. And on top of that, his 4 4 shot is a bigger problem than it at first seems. That one less accuracy value definitely makes a difference when it comes to goal strategies like onetimers, floaters, slapshots, and more.

8. Fleury - This guy is in a category of his own. A weight bug hero, who because of that gets nerfed a little bit with new CB check knowledge. This is not a huge deal overall though, as he's still fantastic. Ridiculously good skater, who is only held back by his mediocre 4 3 shot and 4 3 stickhandling and passing respectively.

9. Gartner - Another player a little higher than usual. This is because he is almost identical to Klima. Exactly the same skating and stickhandling, better passing with a fantastic 5, with the downside being his shot. His 5 3 shot is a very interesting combo, but it is just not as good or reliable as 4 5.

10. Gretzky - Kudos to EA for making Gretzky the way he is. He is arguably the most unique player, not so different from his real life self. At a glance he seems awful with his 2 2 shot, but his super agility mixed with great weight and solid speed allow him to be a very very tricky deker. This is paired with his 1 of a kind perfect 6 stickhandling to stuff B checks, and also perfect 6 in passing.

11. Modano - The top 10 are in a league of their own imo, but Modano is still very good. He is basically exactly the same as Gartner (all attributes that I listed at the top the same except for one), except for his sometimes heartbreaking 2 shot accuracy. It may seem like not that big a difference, but ask anyone who's had Modano in a league before and they'll have some nightmare wide shots.

12. Recchi - Recchi is what I'd like to call an average superstar. His skating is quite good (Just a little worse than Modano), and his shot is the beautiful 4 5. The only other minor downside is that his stickhandling is 4 instead of 5. You could really argue that Recchi is better than Modano, it's a tough call.

13. Gilmour - Very good skating, better than Recchi's. He's very similar otherwise, with the difference being his 4 4 shot instead of 4 5. IMO this is a huge difference, and makes his better skating basically meaningless. Still very good.

14. Sakic - Another bootleg Recchi (12, 13, and 14 are so close but I'm very sure about my order decision), this time with the same shot but 1 worse agility. Another minute difference that is a bigger deal than it seems. 5 4 skating can deke so much better than 4 4 when the weights are close, and in this case they both weigh 6. 5 Passing being better than the two above him is just a bonus.

15. Lafontaine - Another pretty unique player. Very good skater, also with great stickhandling and passing. He'd be fantastic if it wasn't for his crap 3 4 shot. It's a pretty bad shot, but he can get by offensively with his super speed and deke ability.

16. Bradley - With the CB check, Bradley and Lemieux become very similar. Both being slow skaters with good shots. Lemieux has him beat in shot accuracy by 1, and beats him badly with his fantastic stickhandling and passing. It's hard to tell who skates better with the massive difference in their weights, but with a little testing I found Bradley to be much easier to move, deke, and score with.

17. Lemieux - See the Bradley explanation above for my Lemieux opinion. They are both still very good players, and are only better than Ronning in my opinion because they are classical scoring centers, despite their slow speed.

18. Ronning - I'll never understand the Finnish love for Ronning, Swos or Depch please comment here! He does have a unique feel and can score some interesting net crashing goals. He also seems like one of the best players to pass shot with. But anyway, his super skating is held back harshly by his atrocious 2 3 shot. His 4 4 stickhandling and passing aren't out of this world either. Regardless, he can skate like a madman and has the agility to deke with the best of em.

19. R. Courtnall - Exact same skating as Teemu ( :o ), but much worse otherwise. Mainly because of his shot though, with it being a below average 4 3. Bad 3 3 stickhandling and passing contribute to him being a true bootleg version of Selanne.

20. Sandstrom - The king of the hard shot fatties club. He is a very bad skater (compared to everyone else around him here), and is only okay in the stickhandling and passing department at 4 3, but is held up high by his cannon of a shot. 5 5 shots are very rare in the 94 world. Him being a fatty moves him up a few spots in the CB world (only because the lightweights fall slightly). The threat of his onetimer is worth him not being able to hold the puck for 2 seconds.

21. Fedorov - He seems like a pretty average forward at a glance with his 4 4 shot, but he is the last smooth skater left who doesn't have a bad shot. That one extra agility value + 5 stickhandling makes all the difference.

22. Savard - Better skater than Fedorov, and also 5 stickhandling, so better deker. 3 3 shot is his downfall. It is bad but his dekeability allows him to still be able to score.

23. Oates - So close to Fedorov. The exact same skating and stickhandling, and even better passing with a shocking perfect 6 passing (only Gretzky matches this). In my eyes as good as that is, it's just not worth his 3 4 shot.

24. Makarov - Makarov has only been taken below 50 once, and props to Minpind for snagging him at 59 this year. I never realized until today that he is really underrated. Just as good a skater as Recchi, and 5 stickhandling and passing make him very dangerous. His 2 4 shot is wack though, but if Ronning can make it work with 2 3 then Makarov can too.

25. Robitaille - I really don't like this guy. but I still think he is better than the rest behind him. He has a very good 4 6 shot, and 5 stickhandling, but his skating holds him back. He really is a bad deker, and while he isn't an absolute snail he's pretty slow overall.

What do ya think?

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Looks about right. If it were top 25 wingers I would say guys like gretzky and my boy oates would be at the top of the list.

top 25 Goalies would be a no-brainer.

would love to see how weird the top 25 defenders would look like.

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Great list. My quick initial reaction is...

I wouldn't puck Roenick #1 anymore. With C/B, I don't feel the defacto #1 anymore. I'd throw Mogs in there at #1. Still agree on top 4. I'd probably put Gartner, Klima, and Bure ahead of Dino. Mario ahead of Gretzky, Gilmour, Sakic. Russ and Ronning ahead of them too.

I have to think about it some more and come up with my own 25, but pretty sure Brett Hull would be included there. Bradley wouldn't make my top 25, not sure why he's better than someone like Sundin?

Great job though...will be fun to debate and a challenge to come up with a top 25!

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Feel like Hogue and Hull belong there too. Bradley drops out due to poor speed and agility. Need at least 4's in both cats to qualify in top 25.

Robitaille/makarov would drop too. Great topic

The list definitely needs to consider the CB check now. I think speed now becomes even more necessary.

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I decided to take a stab at ranking the top 25 forwards, in a gdl/classic world. It seemed like an easy task, but I honestly ended up thinking about this for like 2 hours lol. It is harrrrrrd to decide who's better when two players are similar, but even harder when it's two players who are equally good in differing ways. I basically weigh Weight, Agility, Speed, Shot Power, Shot Accuracy, Stickhandling, and Passing far more heavily than all the other attributes. When it comes to forwards these are the attributes that I think truly matter.

I understand that most people won't want to put their own top 25. Out of fear of people using it against them in future gdl's or something lol, but I'm looking to get some discussion over this regardless. Feel free to criticize any ranking of mine, as major or minor as you'd like. Call me out please I welcome it. Anyway, here's what I ended up deciding:

1. Roenick - The perfect man. I think everyone knows this by now :)

2. Yzerman - As good a skater as Roenick (with weight factored in), and basically equal otherwise with just a little weaker shot.

3. Mogilny - Definitely worse than Yzerman, but still amazing. His super speed + 7 weight makes him a bit hard to handle, even with 6 agility.

4. Selanne - Slightly faster than Mogilny because of 1 less weight, but the 1 less agility makes him even harder to handle. Him and

Mogilny are far better than #5+ but just can't deke quite like Roenick and Yzerman.

5. Ciccarelli - Such a solid skater, and a basically perfect shot. Just can't quite skate like the four above him.

6. Klima - I'm probably going to take some flak here, but he really is a superstar. 7 weight + 5 5 skating is imo creates the perfect deking ability, and this paired with a very good 4 5 shot makes him dangerous. 5 Stickhandling makes him dodge the odd B check as well. Lastly, he seems to be oddly good at cherrypicking, and this is thought to be due to his 2 defensive awareness.

7. Bure - You might be surprised at him being this low, but hear me out. He is considerably faster than Klima (2 lower weight and 1 higher speed), and his agility is the same. But this has consequences. His speed being higher than his agility makes him sort of hard to handle, which makes him weaker at deking. The extra speed is not worth it in my eyes. And on top of that, his 4 4 shot is a bigger problem than it at first seems. That one less accuracy value definitely makes a difference when it comes to goal strategies like onetimers, floaters, slapshots, and more.

8. Fleury - This guy is in a category of his own. A weight bug hero, who because of that gets nerfed a little bit with new CB check knowledge. This is not a huge deal overall though, as he's still fantastic. Ridiculously good skater, who is only held back by his mediocre 4 3 shot and 4 3 stickhandling and passing respectively.

9. Gartner - Another player a little higher than usual. This is because he is almost identical to Klima. Exactly the same skating and stickhandling, better passing with a fantastic 5, with the downside being his shot. His 5 3 shot is a very interesting combo, but it is just not as good or reliable as 4 5.

10. Gretzky - Kudos to EA for making Gretzky the way he is. He is arguably the most unique player, not so different from his real life self. At a glance he seems awful with his 2 2 shot, but his super agility mixed with great weight and solid speed allow him to be a very very tricky deker. This is paired with his 1 of a kind perfect 6 stickhandling to stuff B checks, and also perfect 6 in passing.

11. Modano - The top 10 are in a league of their own imo, but Modano is still very good. He is basically exactly the same as Gartner (all attributes that I listed at the top the same except for one), except for his sometimes heartbreaking 2 shot accuracy. It may seem like not that big a difference, but ask anyone who's had Modano in a league before and they'll have some nightmare wide shots.

12. Recchi - Recchi is what I'd like to call an average superstar. His skating is quite good (Just a little worse than Modano), and his shot is the beautiful 4 5. The only other minor downside is that his stickhandling is 4 instead of 5. You could really argue that Recchi is better than Modano, it's a tough call.

13. Gilmour - Very good skating, better than Recchi's. He's very similar otherwise, with the difference being his 4 4 shot instead of 4 5. IMO this is a huge difference, and makes his better skating basically meaningless. Still very good.

14. Sakic - Another bootleg Recchi (12, 13, and 14 are so close but I'm very sure about my order decision), this time with the same shot but 1 worse agility. Another minute difference that is a bigger deal than it seems. 5 4 skating can deke so much better than 4 4 when the weights are close, and in this case they both weigh 6. 5 Passing being better than the two above him is just a bonus.

15. Lafontaine - Another pretty unique player. Very good skater, also with great stickhandling and passing. He'd be fantastic if it wasn't for his crap 3 4 shot. It's a pretty bad shot, but he can get by offensively with his super speed and deke ability.

16. Bradley - With the CB check, Bradley and Lemieux become very similar. Both being slow skaters with good shots. Lemieux has him beat in shot accuracy by 1, and beats him badly with his fantastic stickhandling and passing. It's hard to tell who skates better with the massive difference in their weights, but with a little testing I found Bradley to be much easier to move, deke, and score with.

17. Lemieux - See the Bradley explanation above for my Lemieux opinion. They are both still very good players, and are only better than Ronning in my opinion because they are classical scoring centers, despite their slow speed.

18. Ronning - I'll never understand the Finnish love for Ronning, Swos or Depch please comment here! He does have a unique feel and can score some interesting net crashing goals. He also seems like one of the best players to pass shot with. But anyway, his super skating is held back harshly by his atrocious 2 3 shot. His 4 4 stickhandling and passing aren't out of this world either. Regardless, he can skate like a madman and has the agility to deke with the best of em.

19. R. Courtnall - Exact same skating as Teemu ( :o ), but much worse otherwise. Mainly because of his shot though, with it being a below average 4 3. Bad 3 3 stickhandling and passing contribute to him being a true bootleg version of Selanne.

20. Sandstrom - The king of the hard shot fatties club. He is a very bad skater (compared to everyone else around him here), and is only okay in the stickhandling and passing department at 4 3, but is held up high by his cannon of a shot. 5 5 shots are very rare in the 94 world. Him being a fatty moves him up a few spots in the CB world (only because the lightweights fall slightly). The threat of his onetimer is worth him not being able to hold the puck for 2 seconds.

21. Fedorov - He seems like a pretty average forward at a glance with his 4 4 shot, but he is the last smooth skater left who doesn't have a bad shot. That one extra agility value + 5 stickhandling makes all the difference.

22. Savard - Better skater than Fedorov, and also 5 stickhandling, so better deker. 3 3 shot is his downfall. It is bad but his dekeability allows him to still be able to score.

23. Oates - So close to Fedorov. The exact same skating and stickhandling, and even better passing with a shocking perfect 6 passing (only Gretzky matches this). In my eyes as good as that is, it's just not worth his 3 4 shot.

24. Makarov - Makarov has only been taken below 50 once, and props to Minpind for snagging him at 59 this year. I never realized until today that he is really underrated. Just as good a skater as Recchi, and 5 stickhandling and passing make him very dangerous. His 2 4 shot is wack though, but if Ronning can make it work with 2 3 then Makarov can too.

25. Robitaille - I really don't like this guy. but I still think he is better than the rest behind him. He has a very good 4 6 shot, and 5 stickhandling, but his skating holds him back. He really is a bad deker, and while he isn't an absolute snail he's pretty slow overall.

What do ya think?

6. My theory on Klima cherrypicking is the 3/2 awareness indeed but with combined speed. Awarenesses do not count towards position directly in my theory. But as a reaction time when you pass the puck to wing on an opening pass even with a speed 4 guy you get fairly deep and Klima reacts very slowly to this. The opponent defence is already positioned to where the puck is on your winger players closeby and with Klima reacting later he has the advantage of positioning himself better to comparison in that opponent D already and his speed makes him come out of the bushes to do this allowing somewhat easy cherrypicking onetimers. This is what I think makes him a very unique player also and results with players using Klima seem to confirm some of it. Still just a theory, but the gameplay and seeing things happen would back this theory up in my mind.

18. Ronning is pretty much the perfect player to handle in my mind. 555 Speeds just work very fluidly. He also has a bit of same coming out of the bushes thing going on as Klima and from close to the net, well even Gretzkys 2/2 shot scores onetimers ok, same with Ronning. Solid defensively as well and quite nice pass shots.

[edit]

+ I would propably have Hull on top#25 players list too, can try to figure out a list of my own later on.

+ CB Knowledge could raise the stack of Yzerman on my mind. He is weight 6 so resistance against weight 5 / 7 d-men who are plenty and usually picker early as the better d-men. 4 Weights are only Sweeney and few scrubs who can take him down with C and 8+ while plenty not many are that good.

+8 Weight with stickhandling 5+ would be an interesting one too, but no players match that category. :)

Edited by Depch
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Interesting read even though I don't play Genesis.

For SNES, the list would be quite a bit different, with a lot more heavier guys in the top ten, like Lemieux, Lindros and Neely. I would like to do a SNES list sometime. Rankings are always fun.

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WHERE IS KONTOS!?

Seriously though, this is a very interesting list. I definitely disagree with a few of the rankings namely Ciccarelli, Bure and Modano just off the top of my head. It's been so long since I played and this whole CB check thing really throws a wrench into a lot of the things I felt I used to know about. I'm sure any list I create would be archaic and in need of translation from Asstorm to make sense to all the newer guys playing in the leagues these days.

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My list:

1. Roenick- The Boss

2. Yzerman- Skilled speedster and incredibly smart.

3. Bure- Roenick light

4. Selanne- Tough call between Selanne and Bure, I'd take Bure's extra stickhandling though

5. Mogilny- Too fast to use his brain on one-timers

6. Klima- I agree with TK here, despite 3 O. aware. Klima is just a monster who handles like a dream.

7. Ciccarelli- Major drop off here from the top 6, feel his 5 acc is a bit underwhelming due to 4 o aware. Superiorly skilled compared to the 5 and 6 speeds still unamed.

8. Gilmour-Great playmaker who is a dangerous shooter as well. Takes too many penalties and lacks a stellar attribute.

9. Fleury-Speed demon, wrecking ball, nerfed a bit with CB check, still dangerous.

10. Gartner- Takes a little bit to get going when compared to Fleury. Maddening shot, but he can also score the most amazing goals.

11. Recchi- A technician with the puck, dangerous shooter. Great winger or center.

12. Sakic- Essentially Recchi with a tad bit less skating.

13. Gretzky- Best pure playmaker, fantastic on defense, just dont ask him to shoot from range.

14. Sandstrom-Best pure shooter in the game, just enough skating and enstein level IQ help him dominate offensively.

15. Robitaille-Super all around player. Winger or center the guy plays at a high level.

16. Fedorov- Solid across the board, very easy to handle, supreme passer.

17. Lemieux- Most highly skilled player in the game, still a cinch to take down but not a defensive suck hole any longer.

18. Hogue- Best all around 5 speed player left on the board. Converts his scoring chances and sets up plenty as well.

19. Modano- Really fun to use when he's on his game, A nightmare otherwise.

20. Lafontaine- Underwhelming total package, not enough speed or shooting to be truly dynamic. Great playmaker, but nothing breath taking.

21. Sundin- Great all around player, can now knock around some lightweights.

22. Ronning-Speedy, defensive beast. Elusive enough to dodge the big defenders who can take him down. Still only a deker when it comes to goal scoring.

23. R. Courtnall- Pure speed demon. Being easier to handle than Bondra makes all the difference here.

24. Roberts- Fantastic center, good skater, very smart, dangerous shooter. Just dont put him on the wing.

25. Savard- Slippery little playmaker, struggles to score.

This list was indeed very difficult to make. Just a few notes on guys I left off the list who have been mentioned previously.

Brett Hull-Not a good enough skater to create his own chances consistently. Wild shot does him no favors. Id take the consistent Pierre Turgeon before Hull.

Brian Bradley- Too slow to be as effective as he was before the CB check. He's turning into a guy I'd troll with as oppose to roll with in the hard times.

Adam Oates- Better passer than Fedorov, Oates lack of shooting and lack of other elite attributes make him too easy to predict.

Peter Bondra- Not enough top tier skills and lack of agility really water down his elite speed.

Steve Larmer- A very solid #2 guy, no weaknesses, lack of game breaking strengths though.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 4 months later...

After my stint in 2015 I'm making 2 changes:

Selanne - From 4 previously down to 14

Modano - From 11 previously up to 10

Call it bias because of my first round exit with the Jets if you will. I'm not gonna blame you if you really think that way. I just strongly feel now that Selanne is not a top 10 player, because of his skating. As most of us know, having more speed than agility (attribute wise) causes wonkiness in skating. If you didn't know that already, I'll sum it up quick. It causes them to have an extra wide turning radius, to be slower at stopping, and also, to be slower when starting up / changing directions. This is not an exact definition, but that's basically it.

Selanne has a good shot, no questioning that, and he is fast as hell. I used to think that's all that really mattered. But I learned that this man skates like a mini bondra. Selanne just simply cannot deke, and deking to me is an extremely important part of 94. By deking I don't mean deking the goalie, I mean deking the opponent and his players, wiggling your way to the net. Deking in 94 is all about the 'stop and go'. Stopping up when the opponent is getting ready to defend you in some way, and changing directions or faking them out by going the same way. All kinds of fakes come out of stopping up, my whole game revolves around this. Selanne is awful at this. He takes 8 years to stop up, and 8 more years to change directions. You can't stop up and turn precisely with him I find because he turns so freaking wide. Selanne is a craptastic deker!!!!!

Oh yeah, and Modano. He is awesome and deserves to be in the top 10. I'd definitely rather have Mike instead of Wayne. Gretzky is awesome, but Modano is a true superstar center.

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  • 1 year later...

I'm new here, and may be missing something. It looks like you guys are using different ratings than the standard Sega ratings, and I don't know what a CB check is.. (I don't play online... )

but, my thoughts..

All these players and no one is mentioning Wendell Clark. decent enough skater.. but that 95 shot power is just vicious. hit him up for a one-timer and he's just money in the bank.

speaking of not playing online.. is there a good thread here where people talk about the standard rosters?

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I'm new here, and may be missing something. It looks like you guys are using different ratings than the standard Sega ratings, and I don't know what a CB check is.. (I don't play online... )

but, my thoughts..

All these players and no one is mentioning Wendell Clark. decent enough skater.. but that 95 shot power is just vicious. hit him up for a one-timer and he's just money in the bank.

speaking of not playing online.. is there a good thread here where people talk about the standard rosters?

These are the standard ratings for folks, but we are using a 1-6 scale for each attribute as that is what the game actually has internally. Here's a quick page on that info: http://nhl94strategy.com/?page_id=26

The message boards are loaded with different threads talking about rosters. I like AJ's Guide for Lineups for each team: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/forum/126-building-lines-with-aj/

Also, on this topic, here is my list of top 24 draft picks that you may find interesting as well: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/17507-gdl-draft-strategy-1st-round/

Wendell Clark is way to slow in this game to be considered in the top 50.

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Welcome, lastings :)

Clark is fun, and has one of the better shots in the game, but for online play, he is just too slow to be anything but a 3rd forward in a 24-team, no-line-changes league :). He definitely can't play centre, which makes it harder to one-timer with him, and his speed prevents him from making his own chances for high-slot slappers off the rush or cycle.

Valeri Kamensky has the same shot, stick handling, and passing, but is a better skater (72 speed and agility instead of 55), check him out!

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These are the standard ratings for folks, but we are using a 1-6 scale for each attribute as that is what the game actually has internally. Here's a quick page on that info: http://nhl94strategy.com/?page_id=26

The message boards are loaded with different threads talking about rosters. I like AJ's Guide for Lineups for each team: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/forum/126-building-lines-with-aj/

Also, on this topic, here is my list of top 24 draft picks that you may find interesting as well: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/17507-gdl-draft-strategy-1st-round/

Wendell Clark is way to slow in this game to be considered in the top 50.

Thanks! these looks like some good threads to start with...

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All,

being new to this site, I have leaned a lot of new information in the last couple days. The biggest and most important bit of information being how weight affects players in this game. I always knew, intuitively, that Fleury, Gilmour, ect.. were very hard to knock off the puck. But, being that those are very small guys in real life, I never really knew why. now.. I know.

After reading a ton of comments in a few different threads about what people generally think makes a player valuable (big shoutout to AJs lineup guides), and then playing a bunch of games last night, paying attention to specific attributes, I think I came up with a formula for evaluating a player's overall skill.

I have seen some threads around here assigning a weight to each individual category, but I think that looking at each category individually is a bit flawed. certain attributes work together, to create a finished product. Shot power alone does not make you a great shooter, nor does shot accuracy alone, but a combination of the two does. Additionally, speed is nice, but without comparable agility and weight, it can be worthless. don't believe me? go play a game with Randy Wood. his 5 speed is great, but his 8 weight and 1 agility make him impossible to work with and, thus, worthless out there.

Here's how I arrived at my formulas.

I came up with an Individual score for each player. This is a score made up the attributes that are specific to that player alone and not affected by what other people are doing on the ice. This is made up of Total Shot, Weight Value, and Total Speed.

Total Shot

((Shot Power*2.5)+shot accuracy))*1.25

-while both shot power and shot accuracy have value, the power is simply way more important. you wanna test this theory out? go put Petr Nedved in your starting lineup for VAN. he has 6 shot accuracy with only 2 shot power. it's a worthless shot. If that shot had any value, I guarantee way more people would insert him in their lineup given is 5 weight. But, alas, worthless. On the other hand, Kamensky, Gardner, and Wendell Clark all have 5 power. 3 accuracy shots. tell me you don't love winding up with any of those 3 guys. All that said, though, accuracy does have some value. I'll take Roenick or Ciccarrelli's 5/5 shot over the 3 above any day. accuracy is simply a compliment to a powerful shot, rather than a stand alone value.

highest shot score is Hull with 22.5, followed by the 3 5/5 shot guys at 21.9.

Weight Value

((12-Weight)*1.5)+2

This was a little tricky to give an appropriate value to weight. I started with the number 12, because a 12 weight player is the fattest forward anyone would consider playing with (Eric Lindros). So, for Lindros his value starts at (12-his weight (12))=0. so, Lindros' 0 score is the baseline. everyone else receives some type of value for their weight. next, I multiplied by 1.5 so that the separation between weights was a bit more valuable. instead of a 4 weight player being only 1 point more valuable than a 5 weight player, he is now 1.5 points more valuable. next I added 2 to everyone's number. This added a bit more value to the weight category (compared with speed and shot) without disrupting the point distribution comparatively with the players.

Fleury and Kovalenko are the top scorers in weigh with 15.5 points.

That may seem a bit low compared to the points awarded for Total shot, but, as you'll see, weight gets awarded again as it relates to speed.

Total Speed

(this one gets a bit complex)

(((Speed*2)+(Agility*1.3)+(Weight Value/2))/3)*2.5

ok.. here goes..

All things being equal (which they never are), Speed is a bit more valuable than agility. not by a lot, but it is. Thus, in this score, Speed gets a x2 multiplier, whereas agility only gets a 1.3x multiplier.. Would you take Bondra's 6 speed, 4 agl over Gretzky's 4/6? The first thing you'd say is.. Well, i'm not sure. "I mean gretzky is lighter so he gets moving quicker, which offsets the speed difference a bit..." Like I said, all things are never equal. but, anyways.. you would. if they were the same weight.. so. let's factor in weight. We already have a value for everyone's weight, but adding in the whole value would devalue speed adn agility too much, so I had to add a divisor. I tried divisors of 2,3, and to see how they affected the overall number and then tested them out on the game. The players I compared, due to their speed and various weights were Mogilny 6 spd, 6 agl, 7 weight, Bure 6/5/5, Selanne 6/5/6, Fleury 5/5/3, and Roenick 5/5/4. first I compared the 6 speed guys. Bure is the fastest. There's not doubt about it. They all fly in a straight line, but Bure just gets up to top speed so quick. The other two feel a bit clunkier especially on direction changes. Selanne feeling the clunckiest of the 3. Then I added Fleury into the mix. Fleury is decidedly not as fast as Bure and Mogilny. Those two are on another level. But, after playing more than an hour straight with Selanne, then Fleury, then Selanne, then Fleury, etc. etc.. I came to the conclusion that Fleury is faster. maybe not in a straight-line race down the boards, but Fleury is much quicker and in most applicable in-game uses, I'll take Fleury's speed/quickness over Selanne's. but, it's very close. Next I tested out Roenick 5/5/4 vs. Selanne. Roenick is Boss, but from a speed standpoint it's just not at Selanne's level.

So, after that testing, I fount the divisor that represented my in-game findings (2) and applied.

next, because speed was the addition of 3 cats, while shooting was only to, speeds total number was heavily outweighing shooting. easy fix. divide all 3 speed cats by 3, then multiply the total by 2.5 (which evens its weight with Shot value). done and done.

Top total speed score was Bure with 20.6, mogilny with 20.5
(Interestingly enough, Gretzky and Bondra end up right next to eachother at 19.0 and 18.9

, respectively)

The addition of these three game everyone an individual score.

then I added in everyone's intangibles. This was just a straight addition of Off Aware, Def Aware, Stick Handling, and Passing.

The sum of all these parts gives each player a total value.
See the top 30 listed below.


let me know your thoughts!!!

post-10148-0-12185600-1482434760_thumb.j

Edited by lastings
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Great stuff, I like your idea of combining certain stat categories to give a value. I've thought about doing something similar in the past, I just haven't gotten around to it. My team rankings I wrote years back still holds up well for the everyday player, but I wanted to create a new player ranking. Check out the appendix at the end :http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/13375-nhl94-team-rankings/

I think you are undervaluing stick handling by lumping it in with awareness and passing. It's one of the more important attributes in the game as it helps against b checks. Similarly, I doubt you'd see much difference in Steve Larmer if you dropped his def awareness to zero vs 6. It's just not worth as much (I'd argue it's worthless in the grand scheme of things). Finally, when I was thinking of doing something similar, there is a big difference when you jump to 5 attribute on anything vs 4 vs 3. It's rarer. Anyway, I'm on my phone and about to get off my train, lol..great job, love the analysis and effort! Nothing gets a conversation flowing like player ranks and ratings!

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Love to see a guy getting that "Ohhh" moment I had and suddenly realizing what happened 20 years ago & why!

Anyhow, one of the things not as openly discussed, Raph mentioned above.

5 on certain categories becomes a game changer.

5 on shot power suddenly can one timer past most goalies closer to the blue line. This has a huge strategic change to how you play offense.

5 on stick makes it MUCH harder for your player to be B checked, one of the most effective ways to play defense.

5 on checking makes your player noticeably more aggressive as a CPU player.

5 on accuracy finds its way in the net a lot more than the 4 does, a much larger jump from say 4 from the 3 gives you.

I don't see 5 agility, 5 speed, 5 awareness or 5 pass compared to 4 in that category being something that stands out as a greater than plus one bonus would be expected to do.

In other words, a guy skating at 4 speed vs a guy skating at 5 speed feels like he is 1 point faster, or 1 point more agile. BUT, a 5 shot power or 5 stick handle to me, PLAYS completely different and alters the value/results of the player & game.

If you goto B check an opponent and his player is 5 stick, he will "toggle", but not lose the puck or fall down. Quite often, when he recovers, you will find your defense out of position and he is either completing a goal on you or making a great one timer pass for a goal. One of the site's best players has made a living off of crease cuts after failed B checks on his high stick handling players.

If a player can one timer from close to the blue line, but the CPU defense is willing to leave him alone up there, it gets VERY difficult to defend the center (say Sandstrom) at the range. It's easier to skate around with the puck that far away from the goal and that far away from most of the CPU positioned defenders, and find an opening to get a one timer off at that range.

The power of the "5" can be much greater than most think about.

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It's neat to have separate skating, shooting, and weight categories, but if you expand then simplify all the forumulas you end up with:

Rating = 28.3 - [2.1 * Wgt] + [1.67 * Spd] + [1.08 * Agi] + [3.125 * ShPow] + [1.25 * ShAcc] + OffAw + DefAw + StH + Pas

Which you can then plug into the Blitz site (which can't handle the 28.3, but the order is right)

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When I first started in GDL and Blitz, I spent a lot of time trying to find a way to rank players. I also worked with weight by flipping it (subtracting from 12) in order to make the lower weight guys more valuable in the formulas.

I also looked at relative speed, or perhaps better stated as acceleration. I've been told that the speed stat relates to 'top-speed', so weight and agility will affect acceleration which becomes more of an issue the heavier a player gets.

Great read, and welcome.

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OK, so given the feedback.. here are some things I'll look into.

1) a little more attention on the "intangibles" most notably, stick-handling deserving a bit more weight.

2) possibly giving a bit more weight to ratings that are "5" and over.

unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way for me to upload the excel file for me to share.

but, I added a sheet that gives a suggested lineup for each team and then ranks all of the teams, based on the total score of those suggested lineups, which is fun to look at.

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ok, attached is the spreadsheet.

I'll work a little more on the values tomorrow.

but, I think this is a nice little tool.

If you click on the team at the top, it will recommend lines for each team, along with 3 backup forwards, 2 backup D, and a backup G.

all teams are ranked based on the ratings of the starting lineup.

NHL 94 rosters.zip

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