NHL'94 Team Rankings

[Depch]

I still can't see Philly in the same tier as LA, BOS, DAL. Surprised you put Pittsburgh so low. Yeah, they are heavy, but loaded with skill (compared to SJ or TB).

Pit indeed is skilled but it is still in the challenging department because of the weight disadvantage. It feels like they are often one step behind and this especially multiplies in online games. This is my experience with them. If you get the onetimer game going on, which for me is countered by the better and more slick teams often then it can definately perform, AJ showed that. I still lack the experience of online play with this team myself after C/B, which could help boost it to average tier. It would definately be there already if Lemieux had even a Borchevsky to pair him up with.

Phi I argued being in the competitive side because of Recchi being one of the better offensive players with a decent shot in that group sided with Eklund, who is like a mini-Gretzky in my mind, not too close, but as a poor mans version. Side that sometimes with Lindros 4/6 shot for feed the sniper tactic or a 5 speeder in Dineen to make the team even more slick and it's one of the better skating teams in the tier imo. Hawgood & Yuskevich are pretty nice on D with 7 weight and 4/3 agi/speed. I like playing with them a lot, I think it's a competitive setup, the top 2 offence is definately better than in Montreal. [EDIT] Has been dropped to average tier after experimenting with more teams, the offence is still very nice though and goalie is great as well.

Sj & Tb I included in the challenging part because they have some tools to work with. A very good player could take them far if the other good players get to pick the teams in their respected turn compared to skill, like the classic before the last one. I can hardly see this happen with the worst teams.

A little off topic, but related to previous paragraph is that in Classic I would definately prefer the team pick draft based on evaluated player skill/previous experience, made the league so much more fun with better players playing with worse teams, great example was Brutus run with Boston. I would be picking usually in the latter end of the drafts so this is a rather objective look at it and not favouring myself.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Depch

[tru]

I think that a handicapping system is a great model for classic team selection:

have an established 0.723 win rate? you are going to get an expansion team.

steady rep 0.109? I hope the game is still fun for you and you get to pick first.

I'd probably put the unknowns in at 0.420 or less. they can pick relatively high.

[Premium]

DAL should be in tier 1 (behind DET) - As good as NYR, but they have a 4 weighter in Neal Broten.

NYR should be in tier 1 (behind DAL) - NYR is dynamite.

VAN should be in tier 1 (behind NYR) - A good difference in skill between NYR and VAN imo.

BUF should be in tier 1 (behind VAN) - If either LaFontaine or Mogilny get injured, it's not a good time.

CHI should be in tier 1 (behind BUF) - Roenick is overrated

BOS should be in tier 2 (as the best team) - These guys could fit in tier 1.. nasty

LA should be in tier 2 (behind BOS) - This team is stacked with good shots, but only one player (Gretzky) has good skating.

WPG should be in tier 2 (behind LA) - Housley and Zhamnov have the stick handlez and Selanne is an elite.

CGY should be in tier 2 (behind WPG) - Fleury, Roberts, Makarov, Nieuwendyk

PHI should be in tier 2 (behind CGY) - Two players with good skating (Recchi and Eklund), a 5 weighter in Eklund and two great shots in Recchi and Lindy.

[TomKabs93]

1. Detroit

2. Dallas

3. Buffalo

4. Vancouver

5. Los Angeles

6. New York Rangers

7. Chicago

8. Winnipeg

9. Boston

10. Philadelphia

11. Calgary

12. Pittsburgh

13. Montreal

14. Quebec

15. Edmonton

16. Toronto

17. St. Louis

18. New Jersey

19. New York Islanders

20. Hartford

I haven't read plabax's above yet, but this is what I think

[Depch]

U guys are very strong on Nyr, I am surprised by this. Yet again I know it has the tools to be higher than on my list, I just never have gotten that team to work well myself. Nyr has never been one of my favourites to begin with, so it might affect that I have overlooked it often and never gotten to play with it that much either due to it. I definately have to look in to it more and try to get used to it. Dallas I actually had in tier 1 at start, not sure why I dropped it with Winnipeg to top tier 2 (I will actually bump them up where I originally had them).

I will definately be updating my list as I play exis and if and bump teams if I get used to them better, as a reminder it is my view and my experience of the teams. This is a great reflect on how different people find different teams in different strenghts.

It's a good time to bump this thread anyways, because it's 3 months to the Toronto tournament.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Depch

[angryjay93]

I still can't see Philly in the same tier as LA, BOS, DAL. Surprised you put Pittsburgh so low. Yeah, they are heavy, but loaded with skill (compared to SJ or TB).

I agree on the PHI front, it seems tough to put them up there in the 2nd tier. Recchi is a very good player but his lack of speed keeps him from being elite. The rest of the team is pretty ok although bereft of top tier talent and is a little underwhelming.

As for PIT, I've seen you mention that they are very skilled on a few occasions and I just want to put my 2 cents in. Obviously Lemieux is the most skilled guy in the game but he takes some serious know how. Jagr has 5 stick handle and Mullen has 5 shot accuracy but after that the team is very vanilla skill wise. I think PIT picked up some play ability since they are a viable defensive team now.Despite that,they still have a handful of absolutely terrible and almost unwinnable matchups when going against an equally skilled coach. These match ups come up against speedy, light, and more skilled teams such as VAN, DET, DAL, and CHI. On the other hand PIT doesn't really have any good matchups, even the teams they can outskill (SJ, TB, FLA) will push them around physically and hang around in games despite being out skilled. Plus there's almost no chance that those teams ever show up in league play. PIT is better than I thought they would be, and I did better than I thought I would in classic this last season but they are clearly not for the faint of heart.

[HABS]

1. Detroit

2. Chicago

3. Buffalo

4. Vancouver

5. Dallas

6. Winnipeg

7. Calgary

8. Montreal

9. Los Angeles

10. Quebec

11. New York Rangers

12. Edmonton

13. Boston

14. Philadelphia

15. Toronto

16. St. Louis

17. Pittsburgh

18. New Jersey

19. New York Islanders

20. Hartford

[Premium]

1. Detroit

2. Chicago

3. Buffalo

4. Vancouver

5. Dallas

6. Winnipeg

7. Calgary

8. Montreal

9. Los Angeles

10. Quebec

11. New York Rangers

12. Edmonton

13. Boston

14. Philadelphia

15. Toronto

16. St. Louis

17. Pittsburgh

18. New Jersey

19. New York Islanders

20. Hartford

These may be some of the worst rankings ever.. ha

[HABS]

LOL I know I sharted after I wrote it!!

[cdmangan]

Kingraph! What a great analysis, love it! You inspired me to do some data analysis that shows the talent distribution throughout the league with a focus on the 'scrappers'. I love playing '94 with bad teams.

https://public.tableau.com/views/EA_Sports_94_NHL/NHL94-AnEraofExpansion?:embed=y&:display_count=yes&:showTabs=y

The dashboard is interactive, so if you click on the teams, it will show the talent distribution by team, or if you click on position, it will show talent distribution by position. Earlier in the thread the strength of goalie was mentioned as super-important... If you click on 'Goalie' on the right hand side you can see the distribution is totally skewed left. Belfour and Roy make all others look like chumps.

[Bob Kudelski]

https://public.tableau.com/views/EA_Sports_94_NHL/NHL94-AnEraofExpansion?:embed=y&:display_count=yes&:showTabs=y

This is pretty interesting dashboard. Thanks for creating and sharing!

The most interesting part for me are the charts on the right about Distribution of Rankings by Position, and Talent Distribution. If I were to make an updated roster version of NHL '94, I would want to end up with the same or similar distribution of talent, rather than having inflated ratings for the entire league, with little variability between the top and bottom players.

[kingraph]

Kingraph! What a great analysis, love it! You inspired me to do some data analysis that shows the talent distribution throughout the league with a focus on the 'scrappers'. I love playing '94 with bad teams.

https://public.tableau.com/views/EA_Sports_94_NHL/NHL94-AnEraofExpansion?:embed=y&:display_count=yes&:showTabs=y

The dashboard is interactive, so if you click on the teams, it will show the talent distribution by team, or if you click on position, it will show talent distribution by position. Earlier in the thread the strength of goalie was mentioned as super-important... If you click on 'Goalie' on the right hand side you can see the distribution is totally skewed left. Belfour and Roy make all others look like chumps.

Wow, this is very cool, thanks for making and sharing! And yes, Belfour and Roy are waaaaaaay ahead of other goalies in the game.

[tru]

nice; thanks.

Chicago won't show me any defensemen.

[smozoma]

This is pretty interesting dashboard. Thanks for creating and sharing!

The most interesting part for me are the charts on the right about Distribution of Rankings by Position, and Talent Distribution. If I were to make an updated roster version of NHL '94, I would want to end up with the same or similar distribution of talent, rather than having inflated ratings for the entire league, with little variability between the top and bottom players.

There are some HTML files in the smozROM package that give some distributions (well, some tables with averages) to aim for to match NHL94

http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/12181-tool-hack-applicator/

edit: whoops, it only has some guides for weight and checking rating

[smozoma]

Looks like all the images expired...

[kingraph]

Looks like all the images expired...

Oh, I have them saved locally, so I'll update the post soon, likely Sunday night. Thanks for the heads up!

[kingraph]

Images updated. Can't believe this analysis is 4 years old!

[angryjay93]

Looking back at some of this, I feel it's prudent of me to address why LA and Edmonton were closely ranked.

When I did the rankings originally, I remember a few people that I respect highly speak lowly of zhitnik. When I rated zhitnik, I hit him hard with my rating and gave the LA defense a 4.

I probably should have ranked LA closer to Buffalo since they have similar options. Buffalo received a 7 which makes me think that a 6 for LA would be a much more reasonable ranking.

As for Edmonton I boosted Ranford significantly and gave him a 7.5 rating because other people raved about him in other conversations I was involved in.

Also the defense was probably overrated a tad but not all too much I think. Kravchuk and Manson are both plus skilled heavyweights and they seem to have good chemistry together. They received 6.5 but maybe a 6 would be more fair.

Lastly I've spent a lot of time with Hrudey over the last year and he's not bad in manual. Id boost his 3 rating to a 3.5 or 4. Id probably take him over a guy like Burke, Vernon, and maybe even Tom Barrasso (I hate fat or clunky goalies).

Put all these adjustments together and the teams start to separate a bit and LA pushes closer to the top in a tie with wpg and Edmonton drops down to just above Hartford.

This seems right in that the best part of LA is their forwards. But they don't have a top 10 forward, they just have pieces that go great together. While Edmonton is a steady defensive team with a top 10 forward and some journeymen wingers that are respectable enough.

[kingraph]

Again, this was an attempt to match some statistics with actual results, as well as AJ's initial reviews. I was surprised how well things correlated between classic results, players rating stats, and AJ's guide! I still think it serves as a good barometer for everyday casual players.

Top-level players, particularly with the advent of CB-checking, would have a different list, with different player rankings. You can even see that happening with the HUGE shifts in ADP in the last (13-15) GDL drafts. It's one of the reasons I'm against defining tiers for KO94, there is a difference of how I'd rank teams based on the skill level of the people using them.

[The Russian Rocket]

Been using NYI a lot and I'd say with C-B and manual goofers they aren't half bad.

[Brass Bonanza]

I added up AJ's rating for each teams groupings (F, D, & G)

Here are the results with his latest update adding a few to LA from the original ratings

CHI 27---1

DET 24.5---T2

BUF 24.5---T2

MTL 24---4

BOS 23---5

TOR 22.5---6

WPG 22---7

DAL 21.5---8

VAN 20.5---T9

CGY 20.5---T9

EDM 20---11

LA 19.5---12

QUE 18.5---13

PHI 18---14

NYR 18---15

PIT 17.5---16

HFD 17---17

NJD 15.5---18

STL 15---19

Just another way of rating the teams and this looks pretty accurate. A few teams look too high (BOS, TOR, WPG) and few too low (LA, DAL, NYR, HFD).

You guys are amazing. I love this website!

Edited September 21, 2016 by Brass Bonanza

[Brass Bonanza]

I personally think the QUE Defense is rated too low. 7 & 28 work very well together back there and provide a little CB checking when you need it. I think they are worth 5.5-6.0.

I slide Kovalenko in the middle flanked by Sundin and Sakic and they really play defense! Maybe it's just "The Terminator" roaming the entire ice, but I find Curtis and Steve stay back and plant themselves in front of the net nicely, now Hextall on the other hand.....ugh. He's the most inconsistent keeper in the game. He literally stands on his head for periods at a time and then he will give up 5 goals in one period out of nowhere!! The key to this team is sliding Kovalenko and his ok 3/4 shooting and skating into the middle and let Sundin and Sakic drop bombs with their potent slappers. The only issue I've found is when playing a team like VAN or DAL that just has too much speed, but this lineup ices FIVE 4spd skaters, a 164lb MONSTER, 2 very talented 4/4 skating 4/5 shooting wings and 2 talented D men that can both score(4/2 and 2/3 shooting)and move the puck up the ice (4 & 3 passing) with speed (4/4 and 3/4).

Too bad Mats Sundin isn't a little bit lighter or a hair faster because he ends up being the weak link at 4spd and 196 pounds but this a solid team and I'm surprised they don't have a better winning % in Classic. I'm guessing it's only because they are missing that extra touch of speed, the vanilla defense, or the streaky tender. It looks like most owners go with Gusarov over Lechyshyn and maybe that's why people have issues with their wonky AI. Just wondering if anybody else has tried the original starting pair with Kovalenko at C. Also wondering if I'm the only one that wishes they had the youngster Peter Forsberg on the roster! He was a BA but might have suffered from the weight bug being well over 200lbs

Edited September 21, 2016 by Brass Bonanza

[lastings]

I did a bit of excel work, and arrived at a specific rating for each player.

how I arrived at these numbers can be found in the Top 25 forwards thread.

once I did that, I set it up to create optimal lines for each team. from those lines, Each team received and overall score. Final, I adjusted the overall scores out of 100. whereas an optimal team consisting of Detroit's Forwards, Bostons Defense, and Patrick Roy would score 100. listed below are the scores for each team..

DET	93.08
CHI	90.13
CGY	85.47
BUF	85.19
BOS	84.95
WPG	82.95
MTL	82.08
QUE	81.64
LA	80.40
NYR	78.31
TOR	78.05
DAL	77.46
VAN	76.85
STL	74.91
PHI	74.78
PIT	74.73
EDM	73.03
WSH	72.77
HFD	72.20
NJ	69.46
NYI	66.97
SJ	62.01
TB	60.55
FLA	54.97
OTW	53.38
ANH	50.00

PS - anybody know how to post directly from an excel table without the format getting all goofy?

[smozoma]

PS - anybody know how to post directly from an excel table without the format getting all goofy?

You can kind of get away with copy/pasting from excel by using the code tag button. looks like a couple angle brackets, between the image button and quote button.

[dethrox]

Pits dominates.. not sure how this is not being understood...

 

 

[skip]

10 hours ago, dethrox said:

Pits dominates.. not sure how this is not being understood...

 

 

Weight Bug. Check it out!

[kingraph]

1 hour ago, skip said:

Weight Bug. Check it out!

@dethroxis an SNES player, where Pittsburgh is so good it's dumb.  These are Genesis rankings.  

[smozoma]

I took the formula/values you came up with and made these Radar charts using http://mdp.tylingsoft.com/#radar-chart

Unfortunately it doesn't capture things like sub-worthy players or handedness, or changes in perception of value based on the CB check and toddling. Just thought it was neat.

 

[segathon]

10 hours ago, smozoma said:

I took the formula/values you came up with and made these Radar charts using http://mdp.tylingsoft.com/#radar-chart

Unfortunately it doesn't capture things like sub-worthy players or handedness, or changes in perception of value based on the CB check and toddling. Just thought it was neat.

 

 

 

I want to put Calgary's diagram on a shirt it's so perfectly Balanced with Theo as the Phalanx 

[Scatterbrainzz]

Hey everyone!  I had posted something on the NHL FB page but didn't know if everyone is on that so I'll add it here as well.  I had noticed that through all of the amazing team analysis there wasn't really any graphic representation of the teams "tiers".  I designed a visual aid to go along with the number crunching.  I know that we all will not agree 100% on which teams belong where, especially in the middle tiers, but I thought it would be fun to share.  I hope you enjoy it and let me know what you think!

***P.S.*** These tiers are for the Genesis.  I haven't gotten to the SNES rankings.